Transcript

Bennie F. Johnson

Hello, and thank you for joining us for this very special episode of AMA’s Marketing / And. I’m your host, AMA CEO, Bennie F. Johnson. In our episodes, we explore life through a marketing lens, delving into conversations of individuals that flourish at the intersection of marketing and the unexpected. We’ll introduce you to visionaries whose stories you might not yet have heard of, but are exactly the ones you need to know.

Through our thought-provoking conversations, we’ll unravel the challenges, triumphs, and pivotal moments that have been shaped by marketing. Today, we have a tandem conversation. Yes, we have two special guests joining us. First, we have Arielle C. Baril, the founder and creative director of Rielle. Founded in 2019, her company has made a mark on the world as one of the trendiest, most chic, celebrity-loved, sustainable swimwear labels. An international business graduate and business-driven designer, she’s found her passion for designing resort sportswear to make women feel more comfortable and confident. In 2023, she was named Forbes 30 under 30 Miami. She’s a swimwear designer but at her core, it’s what passion that drives her to achieve. Next, we have our friend Professor Denise Gravatt. She is communications and digital marketing specialist and assistant director communications for the College of Business at Florida Atlantic University. She’s also a researcher with bestselling case studies and is an author recognized for Harvard Business School’s impact list.

Her work focuses on digital, social media, and influence marketing, along with business communications and nonprofit strategy. She’s a passionate storyteller and highlights the work of entrepreneurs like Arielle, who are changing the way we think about traditional business models. Professor Denise and Arielle, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

Arielle Baril 

Hi, thank you so much for having us. It’s an honor to be here today and share my story alongside Denise. So thank you so much for this opportunity.

Bennie

You know, when we started thinking about this, I knew that it made sense for this to be a tandem podcast because your stories are so interconnected. And I think they’re so informative and instructive and more importantly, inspiring for our audience and our listeners. So your relationship started off as professor and student, teacher and mentor, and now it evolves to researcher and entrepreneur. So we’ll talk about this.

How did you first meet? And I’m sure Florida Atlantic University has something to do with this story.

Denise Gravatt

Absolutely. I was tasked a couple years ago with finding out about a little bit more about Ariel’s story. We got the Forbes 30 under 30 designation, and she was one of our young alumni. And so that was my job to reach out and to write a little bit more about her story. And I think that’s where the magic began. We got on a Zoom call, and we’ll dive into that a little bit more. But that was how it started was me reaching out to Ariel to write her alumni story for our college and then for the university.

Bennie

So Arielle, skip to that moment. So you’re a recent grad and you get a call from a professor to write about your story. Now you’re probably remembering just submitting papers a few weeks earlier. So what was that original feeling of getting a phone call to talk about your emerging story?

Arielle

So I remember it was one of the first times ever I got to talk about my story and it was really, really such an organic conversation. Dr. Gravat was honest and open with her questions and she was so respectful of my time. Even though I was just a super young 25-ish year old student, graduate at the time, she made sure to really ask me these personal questions and find what drove me to where I am today and getting to know me on a personal level till where we are now. We’re on this podcast together sharing our story and how we kind of solidified our relationship with so, so many opportunities and things that came about that.

Bennie

So I’m going to do the same thing after my friend. I’m going to invite you to give us an introduction to your brand and your story. So tell your story through the lens of the brand that you created. How and why. 

Arielle

Of course. So I founded Rielle in my bedroom. I was sewing things with my grandma and I didn’t have a sewing machine yet but I was very inspired to creating things for myself. So I would go to her house over the weekends, the long weekends and ask her, hey, can you help me and can you teach me like how to have this finished? And I just remember she was very cautious about me not breaking her machine. But she would definitely be helpful and show me and guide me in how to create like a swimsuit. So I was always, I always did it for the love of fashion. Of course, the love of fashion and everything that I pour into it. But with that reflected amazing opportunities that I’ve had and very early on in the business, I was recognized by very cool celebrity stylists, which we’ll touch base on the Kim Kardashians and Sports Illustrated and of course Forbes later on. So I think all of these opportunities came to me, but a lot of hard work as well and sleepless nights. My summers were dedicated to building this brand and not really having much to build from just the experience that I had being an international business student and also my love and the expertise I had for fashion with my grandma. So it was really, it fell into my lap, but it was truly, truly meant to be. And I feel that up until this very moment today.

Bennie

So describe that moment, that kind of aha moment when this quality time with your grandmother, this passion for fashion meets up with the ambition of the business student. When did you realize that you might have something here?

Arielle

So it wasn’t until I felt the need to invest in my own sewing machine. She’s about an hour drive away, so it would take a toll on me to drive and then work and then come home. So I got my own sewing machine and I had the aha moment when I started getting orders. Looking back, it’s really funny because it was maybe like two or three for the month. But those…

Those orders mean so much to me today because it kind of fueled me to continue going. I never looked at it as it’s not enough. I always saw it as it’s just enough to keep going. And that’s why I kept doing it until I landed really cool opportunities and I’m able to share my story almost every single day. It’s beautiful.

Bennie

So Denise, what took your back when you reached out? Because you get to sign the story.

Denise 

Yeah, yeah, that’s right. It’s a task. And from the very first conversation I had with Arielle, I knew she was someone special. She was young, she was already so accomplished, and yet she carried and continues to carry herself with this quiet grace and humility that you don’t always find in people who have already achieved as much as she had at that date. So we met on Zoom and we talked about her Forbes designation.

And as we would talk, she told me about how she started her business while still an undergrad in her room, like she said, at riding her bike around campus, going to the beach that she loved, making bathing suits for friends and family. And I remember thinking, wow, this is the story. Not just the Forbes distinction, but the whole beautiful kind of unlikely sun drenched journey of how she started. And what really drew me in was her family, immigrants from Haiti and their entrepreneurial roots that run very, very deep. And starting with her grandmother that she’s talked about who owned her own boutique in Haiti and taught, as Ariel said, taught her how to sew. And I knew instantly that however our story would end up, that her family and her inheritance of that entrepreneurial spirit would be at the heart of it all. And you can’t really fully appreciate Riele and her brand without understanding her influences and where her craft actually comes from.

Bennie

I’m going to somewhat quote you, my friend, and paraphrase, deeply rooted in vintage sensibilities, romance, nostalgia, and nature at its core, defining the realness in you. So that’s a pretty powerful brand statement. Tell me how this emerges for you. Where does this embrace of romance and nostalgia and nature at its core come from?

Arielle

So I use Rielle, the word Rielle interchangeably, and I kind of made a meaning for it as the word real. Our slogan is keeping it Rielle, keeping it real, keep it Rielle. So we say that. And where it comes for me is being the heart of the brand. I’ve had the most creativity, the most success and the most ambition when I show up as my most authentic self. And the brand is about authenticity and building off of that. So when I’m selling these pieces, I’m selling that emotion of making you also feel like you can show up as your most authentic self. And it’s more, it’s not about more like what you look like. Of course it’s swimwear and you want to look amazing, but it’s that emotion that is really deeply rooted in every single piece. It’s supposed to make you feel good. It’s supposed to make you true to yourself. It’s supposed to make you happy with just the way you are. And for me, like I always say, the core value of myself and the brand has never changed from when I typed those words. So I think the most authentic you are, the most truthful you will be and things will happen for you. So I was able to build this brand by just being myself. And that’s what I implant in everyone who purchases, who follows, who just… listens, I always tell people like keep it real-y like you. You gotta keep it real with yourself and just show up as your best self.

Bennie

So as a young entrepreneur, in your room, working on a space, how did you break through? Who was your first model? And how did you celebrate the swimsuits? Because I can imagine you’re sewing swimsuits, but no one knows. So what did you do?

Arielle

So it was a risk decision and risk taking where I was approached by an independent PR agent and she was very ambitious and believed in the product as well and she said, hey, like, do you have a spare suit to send to Kim Kardashian at the time? And this for me was, yeah, like let’s just risk it and just send it to her. The worst that could happen is it could bounce back.

Bennie

It’s a spare suit for Kim Kardashian.

Arielle

Or like her security could throw it out or something, her stylist could like, whatever, not approve it. So that was the risk taking moment for me where I won, I didn’t know what, where this product would end up. And I remember it was, it was August, 2020 when I was just about ready to graduate and I shipped this suit to Kim Kardashian. And about two months later, post-graduation, my parents were really, really keen on, you know, getting landing a job. Like they told me you have those two months to rest. And, you know, like I was at an internship. I was in a marketing position, but it didn’t quite fit like what I love to do. It was more in the software space and I was still doing it, but I knew that’s not where I want it to be. So I really took those two months and I put a little more work, but also Kim was on the in the back of my head.

And in October, 2020, I received a message from her stylist at the time who basically said, hi, like we love your products. We would like to place an order for this item in every single color for Kim’s 40th birthday trip. Can you have it done by the next week, the week after? And that moment for me was like, I was laughing about it. Like I laugh about it now, but I just remember logging off and giving my sister my password because I was shaking. I couldn’t reply myself. I knew my task was to get the suits ready and done and packaged and make sure it’s exactly how the first model we sent. And I told my sister at the time she was living in Washington, DC working at the Treasury Department. And can you imagine like this has nothing to do with her work, but she was so kind to do those, the communication, say, yes, we can do this. I was just so emotional. I couldn’t even reply. So of course, going into this, everything is paid. It’s not a collaboration. It’s just like they’re buying from you. So you don’t really expect anything. But I want to say a good two weeks after this mysterious birthday trip, they started posting and it was very much realian. And that moment was kind of like,

I just told my parents and I told them, I said, I won’t be looking for a job or searching. I’m gonna use this and I’m gonna run with it. So that’s kind of where it took off for me and.

Bennie

Talk a bit about that moment. We all have that as entrepreneurs when we have to have, we know our parents want the best for us. But as entrepreneurs, sometimes the best gets confused with a standard nine to five job. And we are on the edge of that breakthrough. How did you win over their confidence?

Arielle

So I think it comes from believing in myself. And there wasn’t a moment of doubt or fear. I knew something was going to happen. If it wasn’t Kim, it could be something else. But I just remembered those two months, I worked extra hard, whether it was posting more or just doing more self-photo shoots with my cousin around our house or just putting in a little bit of extra work. I knew that with that work, I would get to where I want to go.

And of course with any parents, they’ve just invested heavily in your education, your time. I’ve been going to private high school, so they’re designer, fashion, swimwear. You didn’t even go to school for fashion, Ariel. And I just looked at them and I’m like, well, I have a business degree, I’ll get there, I’ll get there. And it took two months. It really did take two months. And that was kind of my confirmation that you are where you’re supposed to be. And it just made sense at that moment for me. Believing in myself for sure was…

Bennie

Wow.

Denise

And your parents are entrepreneurs as well. So they set the stage for it.

Arielle

Yes, they have their own medical practice and they’ve been doing that for 13, 14 years. So they know how hard it is. They know there’s a lot of ups and downs and I was ready to take on anything like working extra hours, non-traditional nine to five, missing out on parties or any events going on, making sure that my customers are happy. It was all me really at the time. So I wore many hats for a while.

Bennie

Okay, excellent. So now we have a case, a story that’s developing. And so you start to share the story. What’s the reaction within your student community and alumni community?

Denise 

So when we wrote the case, before the case study, we wrote the story about Ariel. And the story actually was then chosen. It was a story about her business and how this great alumni of ours was featured in Forbes. And the main magazine, Florida Atlantic Magazine, wanted to use that as their alumni feature for the whole university for that issue, which we were thrilled about. And then the president’s office sent it off to Case.

Well, it won an award at Case. It was a featured story that won an award out of like 782 entries, despite the awards that we got for that story, and it was so great, I was always looking for the next way to, and the rewards are wonderful. Don’t get me wrong. To be recognized for a great story is amazing. However, I kept finding myself wanting more channels to amplify her message. And I really felt that there was something beyond just this jackpot moment that she hit with Kim Kardashian and this recognition that she was still hustling. And that had just been one chapter in her story. So she invited me to come last year to Miami swim week as she was hosting a. She was hosting a happy hour as a participant in the Miami Swim Week, which is a must do event for anyone who’s in luxury swimwear. And really she was, she just called me courtesy to come and meet her parents. So it was a rooftop happy hour in Miami. You know, it’s very fancy and she’s got a bunch of influencers coming and she’s got other guests and she’s got a band. She’s got a Haitian chef that’s doing some fusion appetizers on the rooftop. So it’s an absolutely amazing situation. And as I’m there, I’m watching these influencers taking pictures of the food, taking pictures of themselves, Ariel’s in her own fashion that she’s created, one of her new dresses that she had created. And so I was just seeing this moment and I knew right then that she has to keep the hustle going.

She can’t rest on her laurels no matter how many times she’s been featured in Sports Illustrated swimwear, which is like four or five now. She’s been in Cosmo, she’s been in Elle, Kim’s worn her bathing suits, but she still has to do what every business owner has to do, which is drum up new business. There’s gonna be a new season, there’s gonna be a new set of products that you have to ship out. So I thought as we were talking, this is an interesting case study. Influencer marketing is really relevant right now. She’s on the cutting edge of that in the fashion industry, heavily relies on influencers for their marketing. So it turned out as a personal invitation to just come down there and see what she was doing for fun. And it ended up being afterwards a conversation about how, what are you doing? How were you choosing these influencers with your commitment to authenticity for your brand. How do you make sure you’re finding the right fit? And we talked about some of the lessons she’s learned about not misalignment, but working with other collaborators and what feels good and what doesn’t feel as authentic for her brand. So I thought, what an opportunity as a case writer. This is something that can help Ariel’s story turn from just being inspirational to actually instructional and live in another channel and be in classrooms. So that’s when we started talking more about the business side and her strategy and the risks that she takes and her budget allocation for marketing. So it turned from the story into same story, but kind of in a new channel and in a new format.

Bennie

Well, I want to bring us along on that journey. How describe the steps or that moment that you go from being a bespoke swimsuit designer who has a client or two to actually running a full design driven business. You know, the space where you have multiple customers that you may not see or touch and repeat business and product lines that are coming in. Describe that kind of journey and that feeling.

Arielle

Yeah, so I think the biggest transition for me was being aware of how you present yourself everywhere on social media, at events, and as far as I’ve gone to be merged and different conferences. It’s a conference here, a tech conference here in Miami. I always say that at the end of the day, I always want to be the face of the brand, but I always want to lead by model example. I never want to do anything that kind of jeopardizes my reputation, my morals. I want other young women, Black females to look at me and also be inspired. So every day, it’s not like I’m walking on eggshells, but I do, I’m very cautious of like how I put myself out there. When I was starting, I was just like an every, like a normal girl, know, like figuring it out and maybe posting personal stories online and just like being very in touch with not being in touch with reality. And now I kind of have to think twice and be that model that I want to represent the brand and represent as myself. And I think that’s helped me get into rooms like Forbes and all of these events that I get invited to because I’ve never like jeopardized my my morals, my values, I always stay true to who I am. And going back to the authenticity, I think that’s kind of like what draws people to me. And at the end of the day, like I say, you wanna be the face of your brand and you wanna stand behind your values. So that transition from going to student to worldwide entrepreneur and having these business conversations, it all goes back to not losing sight of like, who you are.

Bennie

Now at the time of our conversation here, we’re approaching Miami Swimsuit Week again. You know, as you now have some time in your engagement in there, how are you approaching this as a, as really, you know, a slow fashion disruptor and startup? How are you approaching this big event?

Arielle

So we have two things lined up. The first one being a week, four day pop-up at the Seasons Cafe at the Plymouth Hotel. So the Plymouth Hotel is kind of like an iconic landmark in Miami Beach where it’s been around since the early 19, mid-1900s. And we have the opportunity to be there and make a collaborative drink.

So we’re having like a coconut cream matcha, Rielle style and a mango swirl matcha. So very tropical-esque and everything. But what really comes down to this Miami Swim Week is not only landing sales and brand visibility, but we’re trying to grow our wholesale market. And we’re going to participate at Cabana Show, is a trade resort, one of the biggest resort wear and swimwear trade shows in the world and it happens to be in Miami, what a perfect city. So we applied for that. We got our booth number, we’re ready to go. And it’s really about nourishing those wholesale connections that I think we really want to grow the brand internationally, like more so than anything. So being present in hotel boutiques, beach clubs, and anywhere that really drives that audience are our audience that we’ve built.

Bennie

What has been the biggest lesson for you being global from the start?

Arielle

The biggest lesson. So as much as the word global sounds big, you have to remember that you can’t be for everyone. You won’t please everyone. So when you say global, global is really a niche, very niche, like luxury market that we try to target. And being global means kind of adjusting to like in a business standpoint, like the taxes and tariffs, the shipping rates and things that we have to deal with on our e-comm side. But being able to be in more stores physically, internationally, we won’t have to worry about like our customers paying like 40, $50 to ship something over. So for me, being global is not just for myself to say like, oh, we’re like in Dubai or we’re in the Middle East or whatever, but it’s really to please the customers and to create that relationship where you can kind of take a piece of Miami wherever you go. So, yeah.

Bennie

Well, I will say this without hesitation. You sound like a CEO, my friend.

Arielle

Thank you. It’s my first time I have ever gotten that, so it means a lot.

Bennie

It’s really powerful to see this story. I can see why you picked up on this kind of moment and the inspiration that we see going in. When you think about the role, and I know, Denise, you do a lot of work with influencer marketing in space. Ariel, what lessons have you taken away from working with influencers? And we know it’s an active dynamic space in marketing, but the space is also maturing now. And some of the things that we’ve did with influencers three years ago are different than today, are different than tomorrow. What has been your experience and how to maximize your brand with the power of influencers?

Arielle

Great, great question. So as I see this influencer marketing transitioning, I’ve noticed there’s a lot more platforms that allows you to filter really what you’re looking for. See if their engagements are high, if their likes are high, are they really converting into sales? And something that I’ve learned along the way is that you can assume as much as you want, but the numbers do speak for themselves. And through this case, like we spoke about it more, but

Even for me, looking at these numbers kind of gave me a wake up call. Like, do I want to work with her again? Do I need to go this route with micro influencers or do I go big? Like with the macro and the larger influencers. So I think influencer marketing is definitely taking its turn in the whole marketing aspect. And the brand is really based off of that. Like we’ve had great hits even last year with influencers and everything.

But it really, goes down to, of course, finding people who also align with their values. They support brands that make sense with Rielle. So an influencer who’s promoting fast fashion wouldn’t necessarily translate into sales, knowing that her audience is more that fast fashion turnover and you know, the price point. So going as far as like what brands do they work with or already have worked with in the past doesn’t make sense for Rielle. And it’s not just because we’re like trying to be like that trendy, like expensive brand. It’s just because we don’t want to waste product. You know, sometimes we send stuff and we don’t really hear back and we have to follow up and then they end up not wearing. But you can’t really pressure them when it’s just a gifting.

So it’s like, do we really wanna go this route again? And this case study really opened my eyes on a lot of things that I should be more on top of in the business and not just gifting things left and right.

Denise

Yeah, I actually love that part, if you don’t mind, about when we were discussing it. And I worked with some co-authors as well. I’m working with Lauren Jarrett, who was your co-chair for ICC at AMA this year. She’s a colleague and a dear friend of mine. And she’s the one that I have a previous case study with on social media marketing that has on the Harvard Best Seller list and then a new co-author Eric Dylanski who’s actually serial best-selling case author and he wrote the book on how to make great cases even better. So this case is in good hands in terms of co-authors but what Ariel kind of when we were asking questions what she seemed to understand was that there’s this in addition to intuition you add the data-driven insights and look really closely at that influencer fit and Bennie, actually what you had said when you were down here on the podcast at Florida Atlantic was talking about how students didn’t necessarily want those old 20 year old case studies on consumer product, packaged goods, right? They wanted something like Love is Blind, on Love is Blind. And Arielle’s story is so new and the influencer marketing, it is maturing, but there’s what we learned from the workshop that we did when we put the draft of the case from marketing professors that we would say is our focus group, right? Do they want this case? They said, we’ll teach it tomorrow. There’s not enough cases. Influencer marketing is important for students to understand from a business perspective, not just being the influencer, but how businesses utilize them. So we knew from our focus group that there was going to be a market.

This is a case that it’s a mini case. So it’s not 10 pages. It’ll be 2,000 words. It’s called a short case, actually. And it’s one that’s going to be able to be taught in MBA classes or undergraduate marketing. And it’s something we think that the students will love and be interested in because it’s not just that jackpot moment that she got with Kim Kardashian, but it’s what does she do next? And this is what brands have to think about when you’re out of the spotlight, you get the spotlight for that moment, what’s next. And that’s really a credit to Ariel and her hard work ethic and her dedication because she didn’t just rest on her laurels, but she’s continued to look for ways that she can grow the brand and look for that next.

Big moment. We think that the case is relevant. It’s timely. It’s going to hopefully come out where we’ve gotten an acceptance pending revisions, but looking at a 2027 publication. Hopefully it’ll be in classrooms next year.

Bennie

That’s awesome to have that impact so early and so evolved in the work you’re doing. So I’m going to ask you this question, Ariel. Where do you find inspiration today for both the fashions that you’re producing, but also the direction that you’re taking the company?

Arielle

I find a lot of inspiration in my day-to-day life, believe it or not. So I definitely consider myself a creative person, an artist even, and to be, to have that label or title or even associate with the word designer, you have to, you see the world in a different lens. So where you’ll see kind of like an irregular shape, I’ll see a piece of art or vice versa, like we don’t see things like everyone else. So every day I try to do things that not only inspire me, I surround myself with people who uplift me and that goes back to the family foundation. I have a great relationship with my sister. So if she’s like, hey, let’s take a Pilates class or let’s do this. I know it’s because I might find some inspiration there. And I don’t always look at things like for business or for fashion or everything. But a lot of my inspiration is really rooted in everything around me at all times. Like I could be at the supermarket and I see something or I see a color and that speaks to me and I’ll create around that alone and then I’ll find a location or like a lot of the pieces are named after cities or locations. So I’ll find something that looks like something or I’ll see something and then it kind of goes in my head like okay this makes sense and when you’re done putting that collection together it all comes together. So as far as inspiration for the brand there are a lot of brands that I look up to and I always say that I compare Rielle to what it was a year ago or even yesterday. So if I don’t see any progress in that sense I always try to do better. Realistically, I would love to like mention being more stores. I would love to be that worldwide swimwear. And we’ve created a design that is kind of coming soon, but it’s already there. It just needs to be demonstrated, which is a spiral. And it’s going to be what I call might be the world’s first interchangeable swimwear. So it’ll go from a bikini to a one piece and you could switch out the spiral and then attach a dress and something I’ve never seen before, but that’s kind of like the inspiration I have today. So doing things that are at a luxury price point, but you do get that luxury experience as well. So not about wearing something once and throwing it away or putting it in your closet, donating it, selling it, just creating life within your products because we go through phases and your swimwear can too, right?

Bennie

Well, it seems like from your statement before, you’re still in a romance with the swimwear, right? Do you pinch yourself each day to realize that you’ve built something in which the time you spent with your grandmother has turned into the time you spent with your own creativity, which has turned into a gift for everyone else.

Arielle

Yes. Yes, and I’m so glad you brought that up because on the other side of it, I don’t see it like that. But hearing it from other people really solidifies what I’ve built and the validation that I get every single day. Like we talk about FAU, but going back on campus, I didn’t get to have that graduation ceremony because I was COVID class of 2020.

However, I was able to be celebrated by a full blown photo shoot Denise put together with my cap and gown on campus taking pictures. And when you say kind of being for everyone and influencing people and inspiring people, I think every time I get back to FAU, my success, my story is celebrated one way or the other. I’m able to do a lot of speaking engagements there, panels, and I would love to you know, do that in every university if I could. But I think seeing the full circle moment of really starting with my grandma to now touching people everywhere in the world, like we ship pretty much everywhere, that to me makes it all worth every like sleepless night, everything, everything.

Bennie

I think that’s an incredible way to end our podcast today, my friends. think moving from inspiration to instruction. What a great moment there. Moving from this love of family and craft and making to business design and agency. Such a great moment of the spaces that are all rooted on the relationships that we hold.

Right? Relationships with each other as student and teacher, as researcher and entrepreneur, as members of a family and as members of a community. Thank you, Raelle, for keeping it real.

Arielle

Thank you, I love that.

Bennie

And I thank you both for joining us for this really special episode of AMAs Marketing. And please, we invite you to explore. The case will be coming out next year. Celebrating all the great work that’s happening at Florida Atlantic University. Please check out the brand. And we’re rooting for you and waiting to see what comes next. Thank you.

Denise

Thank you. Thank you, Bennie.

Arielle

Thank you so much.