Transcript

Bennie F. Johnson

Hello, and thank you for joining us for a very special episode of AMA’s Marketing / And. I’m your host, AMA CEO, Bennie F. Johnson. In our episodes, we explore life through a marketing lens, delving into conversations with visionaries whose stories you might not yet have heard of, but are exactly the ones you need to know. Through our thought-provoking conversations, we’ll unravel the challenges, triumphs, and pivotal moments that have been shaped by marketing.

Today, my very special guest is none other than the icon himself, Sean Greenwood. Sean is the Grand Poobah of PR for Ben & Jerry’s, a title that he has earned affectionately one scoop at a time. In 1988, Sean began sharing Ben & Jerry’s good news and mission, specifically that the organization can thrive when they lead with their values and consider more than just making profit.

Sean has really been the marketing quarterback for the launch of several branded campaigns, including the successful Tonight Doe starring Jimmy Fallon with The Tonight Show. It’s early in 2020 that he helped to launch Ben & Jerry’s new partnership in a flavor with Netflix, affectionately called Netflix and Chilled. He led media and communications for the company’s We Must Dismantle white supremacy statement in response to George Floyd’s murder in 2020. And most recently, he had worked with Chance the Rapper to recognize teachers in Chicago. In 2022, he launched Change is Brewing, working with the Black Voices Matter to address progressive voting laws in the state of Georgia. And in 2023, he helped kick off the newest Lights Caramel Action Flavor with the award-winning director and filmmaker Ava DuVernay  Most importantly, you’re probably wondering what is his favorite flavor. I have a good note that says it’s Cherry Garcia, among the others. I’d like to welcome not only Sean to the podcast, but I’d like him to play us in with our very official AMA theme song, Sean.

Sean Greenwood

Heh. We’re hanging with It’s Bennie.

I’m getting residuals off this if this goes anywhere. That’s all I’m gonna say

Bennie

If it goes anywhere, yes, you get my adoration for life. Thank you, my brother. It is so fun to have you here. It’s such a spirited way to kick off the spring, early summer season, talking about ice cream and talking about you. Welcome.

Sean

Love that. Thank you for having me. What a treat. Now, for the listeners to know that I actually made it out to the collegiate meeting in Chicago this year, St. Patrick’s Day weekend. It was phenomenal. The energy in that room was just the best. For anybody who’s a corporate speaker like myself, you get a chance to go do this venue. It was just tremendous. So love what you guys do and how much energy you tap into.

Bennie

My goodness. It was just our honor to have you. For everyone listening, Sean was one of our keynotes for what ended up being the largest collegiate marketing conference ever. That’s the largest AMA that we’ve had. had students from over 200 campuses competing, learning, networking, and having a great time all in the spirit of marketing. And Sean, knew I wanted to continue our conversation just the way you were able to capture the attention not only of our students, but get them excited about what’s ahead.

Sean

It was so cool, right? Just the idea of finding this spirit, this energy there, you know, they bring such a fire like it’s it’s the hard part probably of, you know, they say we’re supposed to get wiser as we get older. But the hard part is the crustiness comes with it too, right? You’re all my back hurts and I’ve done this a thousand times and there’s such great energy, a great initiative. And it’s just like this idea of rebuilding marketing from the ground up with, you know, it’s this Phoenix that comes out of hanging out with people like that. So it was such a joy to be there.

Bennie

Yeah. It’s so, now, listening to you now and thinking about it, one word that comes up when I think about your brand is a committed optimism. You know, I think about optimism when I think about your brand. You know, you’ve been able to navigate tough times with brand power, presence, and authenticity. You’re able to navigate good times with the same brand presence, and then unexpected times with that same brand presence and perseverance. But I think about all the partnerships that you do, there’s always this joy that comes through. Talk a bit about.

Sean

Hmm. It is. It’s so nice, right? Like the right that that part of like the when, when you believe in values and you have strong values, you don’t check them at the door. Right? So like you’re saying it can be a joyous opportunity. It can be a, how cool that you get to do a play with Ava DuVernay. How do you try to go in and support the work that she’s doing? Identify a resource and shine the light on her and, and then when you have something that’s difficult, you know, in the intro, we’re about the George Floyd murder. And you think of the pain that was going on for our country at that time. And you don’t check your vows yet the door when that goes on, you, you lean in and you go, how do we do this and go through the tough times, go through the good times and, and not, you know, not just try to skirt around it, not try to it’s bring your whole self that way. And we’re fortunate there’s a, you know, corporate dedication to joy.

Like it was one of the underlying principles when Jerry and Ben started this company in 1978 and they got it through the first spring, made it till the first spring in 1979 and surviving the Vermont winter as an ice cream company, not an easy job. And so when they did celebrate that, they said they wanted a couple of underlying principles recognized. And Jerry’s philosophy was if it’s not fun, why do it? Right. So that’s like one of the things that ‘s been core to the company. And Ben’s was business has a responsibility to give back to the community.

So it ties in with this combination of have a great time, but do important work. Think about, get outside of just what’s good for yourself. How do you benefit others? And, you know, that’s the mantra that this company has continued to evolve over the last almost 50 years now.

Bennie

You know, one of the things thinking about as you describe it, you know, what’s been powerful in the entire period of Ben and Jerry’s existence is the dynamism of a partnership. And you see it in even in talking about what’s core to Ben and core to Jerry and seeing the work that you do. I find it fascinating as we look at the bio, we talk so much about your partnerships. How have you been able to replicate that same dynamic energy? You know who you are as a brand but finding these other entertainment and product brands that are different, but you come together in unexpected ways.

Sean

Yeah, and part of it is trying to be thoughtful. We’ve grown on our learning journey. You talk about racial justice. 20 years ago, we had a Stephen Colbert flavor. Over a few years after that, we had a fun opportunity with Elton John. We’ve got the Jimmy Fallon flavor. But you look at those, and you OK, there’s three white dudes. And now you look at the last half dozen, eight years, and we’ve got a flavor that we did with Chance the Rapper. We’ve got Colin Kaepernick. Ava Duvernay, you mentioned.

That’s much more representative of the world we want to be part of. And I think for us, we’ve been able to grow and learn that way because I think we didn’t understand that impact before. I think we’ve always been the businesses we want to do better. We want to use the power of our business to support marginalized communities and the idea that we can find the joy and the justice. That’s a huge component of it.

Bennie

Right. Right. I want to ask this question. Have you ever been surprised to find a community that you didn’t know that was all in on Ben and Jerry’s? As you look at the truly global brand, have you looked up and been surprised and like, I didn’t realize we were even there?

Sean

Yeah. You know, think part of it, I remember when we were launching, right, we did this voting focus flavor, a campaign that was called Democracy is in Your Hands. We were down in North Carolina and we were looking at, we went to North Carolina because it’s kind of a hotbed of civil rights. So for us, this campaign was how do we get in and address and talk to disenfranchised voters in the black community? And you would…hear these stories, I’m up in Little Vermont, that’s a very white community, and you hear these stories around voter suppression. And you’d be like, I don’t, don’t, what do mean voter suppression? Everyone can go vote. What’s the deal? And so we had gone down to North Carolina to meet with these NGOs who were doing the work on the streets. And you know, they’d take you to one community and there’d be 50,000 white people and they’d have 30 voting booths set up and they’d be in and out in 10 minutes. And then you’d go to the next community and there’d be the same number of black people and they’d have four voting booths. And you got to wait in line six hours and you’re like,

Are you kidding me? This happens in today’s society. And I think as we have leaned into that work, right? Partnering with Black Voters Matter, having that community appreciate those. And I think, you know, it was no different than me getting off stage at the event with you folks in Chicago that people are coming up saying, I appreciate the work you’ve done. I appreciate the, you know, there’s a student there that was talking about the work we’ve done in Palestine to stick up for those individuals. You know, you hear that from those communities.

And you know it does matter, right? Sometimes you sit on the other side of the desk and you’re clickety clackety on your keyboard and you’re like, all right, is this really helping anybody out? And to get out in the field and hear that from people is an amazing experience.

Bennie

Right. So I’m gonna ask you to go back. And you did a little bit when you talked to our students, but I’m actually gonna go back to that first day. What did it feel like your first day at Ben & Jerry’s?

Sean

a long time ago people. In 1988, the spring of 1988. You know, I remember walking into the factory. This was all at the Ben and Jerry’s factory for anyone who’s gone there for a factory tour, same place. And I remember smelling, they were making vanilla chocolate chunk ice cream that day, just plain vanilla ice cream with chocolate chunks that go in it. I remember going in for the interview. It was all paper interview back then. So you’d fill out a paper and go sit with people and go through it that way.

They walk you by the break room, back then was, was so long ago, smoking was allowed. So there would be like the break room for the manufacturing people. It was just smoke filled and they’re like, right, you can wait here and you could smell the ice cream being made. It was this organic, you know, but there was this life force that you could feel going on there. That was just, I was drawn to it, right? Like the idea of, okay, and like I that first summer I was scooping ice cream, I’m driving a truck around, but was so proud to be part of that team and feel like it was just something unique and special. And I remember sitting around the first conference room with people that were talking about the things they were sticking up for. Now, back then in 1989, Ben & Jerry’s was the first company to say they would sponsor domestic partners with benefits, right? It was before same-sex marriage was legalized. And for the LGBTQ community, it was a huge thing.

And I remember just sitting around and looking around in here and like, we are making history right now? And people like, we’re just doing what we think needs to be done, that’s the right thing to do because we care about these communities. And you’re like, all right, I think I’ve found Nirvana.

Bennie

If I, wow. And then you skip ahead. When did you recognize that you were the grand poobah PR? When did that day hit you? Now, was that day two or was that down the line?

Sean

I will. That was a while later. It took years while I was, you know, I started scooping ice cream and then started giving tours that fall. And within a couple of years, I was, you know, kind of indoctrinated into this group called the Joy Gang, which was started by our co-founder, Jerry. And the idea was as his philosophy of if it’s not fun, why do it? They said, well, let’s put together a group at work who’s specifically trying to bring more fun to the workplace. So it wasn’t, hey, let’s all go out and grab drinks after work. was no, we want something fun here to make work fun. And so I ended up going to the meetings for probably a year. And then the previous grand poobah did the secret handshake and indoctrinated me to take over as the new grand poobah. And so it was so I remember it was such a cutting edge thing at that time, late 80s, early 90s, where, you know, we would be featured in USA Today. And, you know, they would say like, you guys are all about having fun in the workplace. Come and tell us about that. So I got to go speak, you know, we just travel across the country, went to Europe and would share that with people. And it was such a magical thing. And it felt so grassroots when we were back in the office. Like it felt like this is common sense. You want to take care of your team. You want to have a good time. Why not make work fun? If you’re going to be there 40, 50, 60 hours a week. And that part was, you know, kind of this beginning of really feeling this is something totally unique and special and how fortunate to get to be part of it.

Bennie

Now, you think about it over your time you’ve been here, there’ve been a lot of flavors that have been launched. Are there any that stand out to you that have come down the line? We’re not saying if they’re successful or not. Just any flavors that have always have a sweet spot in your heart.

Sean

You know, I’m a Cherry Garcia guy that was launched like the year before I got there. So it was in full bloom. It was our number one seller up until half baked ice cream unseated it probably 15, 20 years ago now. But it has always been one of my favorites. But I eat them all, man. I’m happy with any ice cream is good ice cream. And it always amazes me. And I’ll see other brands of ice cream. Sometimes people, you know, you’ll be traveling on people like, sorry, we didn’t know you were here. We would have you know, just bought more Ben and Jerry’s. I’m like, we love, you know, try another great ice cream. so real, really cool opportunity that way. Anytime we can eat great ice cream, I’m in.

Bennie

You know, so curiosity is a big part of fun and joy. Talk a bit about going into those mom and pop shops and going into places where people are putting their best batch forward on ice cream and being able to explore other flavors too.

Sean

Right, you understand what they’re trying to do. So you have empathy and you have a connection point immediately saying, I understand how to try to make great ice cream. When you’re able to have that common ground, it’s just a great way to connect. I also am lucky, a lot of times I’d be traveling with our co-founders. So if you’ve got Jerry and or Ben with you and you walk into a shop and you go, hey, let’s try out some of your cool stuff. And then you say, hey, this is Ben and this is Jerry.

You know, it just blows people’s minds. They’re just sitting there going, I’ve been trying to make ice cream here and how did you guys get successful at this? So it’s always been this great opportunity. And I’d see the generosity those guys would bring, right? When they had the chance to be able to visit with other ice cream makers, they were always supportive and willing. I think people helped them out when they started too. And I think you see that reciprocity. There’s this idea that we know the struggle and we want to be supportive.

And the other thing I was saying, what you were saying, like the joy that happens in that, you know, this, this mom and pop, the curiosity you also mentioned. And to me, I’ve been, you know, this one thing as we were talking, Benny going, when you get older, you’re supposed to get wiser. And sometimes you feel like, where’s, where’s the wisdom, curiosity is such an area of that. I find, really allows me to be a better worker, a better listener. It gives me a better chance to connect with people, right? To be able to, instead of going, well, that’s stupid, or having judgment around it, to lean into curiosity and be able to say, that’s an interesting perspective. How did you get there? It’s a lot of what we’re doing here today. just helps you uncover these little nuggets of gems that are buried just underneath the surface.

Bennie

So true. I’d love to talk a bit about scale and scope, you because we’re talking about being in community and being in these smaller shops, but you’re a truly global brand and a global icon. How do you balance that space of thinking about Ben and Jerry’s writ large and then thinking about Ben and Jerry’s as one scoop?

Bennie

Hmm, well, that’s a good question. You know, I think you feel again like the values never change. So you take that in whether you’re if I’m talking to 2000 of your AMA students at that conference or today I was speaking to 60 folks that are communication professionals in Toronto. You bring that same set of values with you, whether it’s big or small. You know, I think there’s definitely the scalability part when you look at how your business can catch on, you know.

Sean

I think if you talk to Ben and Jerry, both say, look, we didn’t expect this thing would go on fire. The idea that we’re in 35 plus countries now, they never expected that. That certainly has been something that just happened. But I think it happened because there was a great product, there was a great message that went along with it, and people who cared and came at it in a very unique way to be inclusive and to be thoughtful and to be trying to use the power of business for good. That was such a unique thing. I think you combine that with the idea of supporting any startup business and it makes it a real darling for people to say, want to support this company.

Bennie

Right. I mean, it’s so true to the roots. You talk about the global presence, but you still show up. We still feel like it’s a small brand we’re rooting for out of Vermont. You know, in every way that goes through. you partner, you’ve partnered in the most visible ways with these big ideas and big initiatives. How have you been able to navigate all of the pressures of, I think of a Tonight Show, which, you know, on everyone’s TV screen, writ large, NBC every night. How do you manage those pressures with making sure that the work you’re doing with Ben and Jerry’s is sticking to your brand essence, which is really those values that Ben and Jerry have perpetuated through your organization? I wonder if that partnership, because not only is the product so different, they come at the world in different ways.

Sean

Yeah, I think there’s sometimes a vetting process that’s helpful to say there are people who are consistent with our values. That’s a good place to start. Sometimes we’re partnering with folks who just doing great work out there that we can help lift up the work they’re doing. So if we’ve had definitely partnerships in the past, whether it’s a vendor, so for folks who love our chocolate fudge brownie ice cream or our half baked ice cream.

The idea that we partner with the Grayston Bakery in Yonkers, New York, they employ homeless people, give them job skills and training, give folks chance to get back on their feet with no criticism or, you know, no barrier to employment in terms of if they have a previous prison record, if they were selling drugs, it doesn’t matter. They have kind of an open hiring policy. And the idea that you can support that business, right? A lot of people know those flavors. They’re in our top five flavors. Between half baked and chocolate fudge brownie. A lot of people don’t know about Grayson for us to try to shed some light on there. You roll that pints over and read that copy on the back. We want people to know about Grayson Bakery. there can be folks that way. It’s not always that it’s just a big public figure, you know, and we’ve had people over the years who’ve wanted to do flavors that we’ve said we don’t want to do a flavor with everybody in the partnership. Flavors should be unique that way. But I think we’re fortunate that we’ve been able to find some of those in a real values way that have served our corporate mission.

Bennie

Well, I’m going to ask this bit of a foodie question, right? As you’ve been able to take Ben and Jerry’s message and flavors out abroad, have there been any nods and flavors that have come from outside of your home that have made their way into the ice cream? You know, one of the things that I love, we talked about this when we travel in space and air, we get to expand our palette. Right.

Sean

It has definitely happened. For sure. Yeah, I think you know, we’ve had some regional flavors that have been made. We were in Japan for a while and had some, you know, you’d get some green matcha ice cream there or some purple potato ice cream there that was really unique. We’ve had flavors that have been made in Europe that ended up, you know, they did a partnership with Bob Marley’s estate and in the Bob Marley family and ended up our fans put together a petition online and had thousands of signatures of people saying we want you to bring that flavor over the US So we have had it happen both ways where you know obviously with our our operations and our headquarters in the US We’ve worked on products that way that have gone out around the globe and there’s certainly people who are in Brazil or in Portugal who go I want to have fish food and I want it to be fish food But we’ve been able to do a little bit more, you know to be able to sit back and listen to some of the great opportunities that come from some of these other ideas from partners around the globe.

Bennie

Really cool in that space. Now, when we talk a bit about, and what you talked to students about, the future of marketing, what advice do you have to this up and coming generation that’s walking in on their first days, that are sitting next to the next grand pooba? What advice do you have?

Sean

You know, I always think for folks who are interviewing, I always think of it saying, if you’re only answering questions, you’ve only gone through half the interview. Every interview in the world will at least end, if not earlier, with the interviewer, the company that’s interested in hiring you saying, do you have any questions for us? And I think the idea knowing that purpose and meaning and values is so important to Gen Z, to be able to bring that in as a strength to say, yeah, I want to ask what is it that this company does that would make me proud when I go home at the end of the day and I’m talking to my friends and family about what I do for work? How does our company make this world just a little bit better, even if it’s in our local community? And I think to be able to do that, knowing that those purpose and that meaning of work and the values component is such a strong piece, it’s not just a, you know, corporate fairy dust program. It’s also good for your business in the future. The idea that you know that this is part of the interest of Gen Z and those are going to be your customers for the next 30, 40 years. Businesses should be leaning into that. And so young folks, say, when you’re getting out there interviewing, bring those ideas. When you say, here’s what I do in my local community now, because I already have these beliefs and it’s amazing what those folks are already doing. So bring that to the interview and share that because those businesses may be a little bit outdated and really looking for that energy and those ideas to really bring their business up to a new level.

Bennie

What I also love in your description and the way that you think about your brand, your brand is there for all the senses. You tell that story your first day and we could hear in those words, we could visualize and smell that first day of the ice cream. Even in our conversation now, I know you were talking about vanilla and chocolate. We can hear the music that comes in and enjoy the ice cream. We can taste the experience, and then we can feel the emotions that tie into the joy that you bring in. How are you able to manage all of those component parts in keeping the brand true?

Sean

I think it’s elves, is that it? Possibly elves that we have at the factory. You know, we’re so fortunate we’ve got one thing Jerry has always said is we have good people. We have great people. We’re so fortunate that it’s something we’ve always pulled together. And while there’s always ups and downs and challenges with the company, like every company, the idea that we’ve had great people who are part of our organization, we’re very fortunate that way. I think, you know, because you’re doing something that’s unique, that’s groundbreaking in terms of adding values into business and carving that space out, I think it does draw a certain type person who wants to come in and make that part of the vernacular, make it part of how this business continues to move forward and evolve that, right? The ice cream business that we are today is not what it was 20 years ago. And what it was 20 years ago isn’t what it was in 1978. So, there’s going to be that evolution of business. So to be able to stick with that, you think about some of the ways we interact with our fans today, social media, we didn’t have that when I started with the business in 1988. The idea that you grow your business and you’re evolving it, it’s such a big component, I think, to us being able to play that symphony that is our company.

Bennie

Wow. Now, over time, you mentioned before the change in taste and flavors. How often do you see a new champ emerge? You we talked Cherry Garcia, then half baked. How often do you see taste change?

Sean

I mean, you we’re always working on new flavors. So new things are rolling out every year for sure. We’ll do a half dozen flavors. But those kind of the very top, the heaviest hitters are, they don’t go far, The Cherry Garcia is still in the top five, Cookie Dough, Chocolate Fudge, Brownie. those are the OGs and they stick around. And so it’s hard. I think the most recent flavors that we’ve brought out that have cut into the top 10, probably strawberry cheesecake, which has been around now maybe 15 years. Stephen Colbert’s flavors in the top 10, Jimmy Fallon’s flavors in the top 10. And I think they are great guys, great partners, and they have great flavors. So, you know, I think it’s hard to break into to have kind of that powerhouse lineup up top, but we’re always trying new things. We’re always trying to find out, know, non-dairy has been the fastest growing segment of frozen desserts in the last five or six years. And so we’ve leaned heavily into that and now have 20 different flavors of non-dairy that you can get. And why? Because our fans are asking for it.

Bennie

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, so true. I will admit, full disclosure, I’ve been ride or die chocolate chip cookie dough forever. I was happy you said that was making it in the top ones in there. I didn’t think it was sexy, but it’s good. I’m pushing your numbers up.

Sean

It’s the best global flavor we have chocolate chip cookie dough. You know, and another thing that’s amazing to share is when you say like, you know, what, what do you consider for marketing folks today? Listen to your fans for us that has included developing such flavors that our fans have brought us the ideas, including your favorite chocolate chip cookie dough, our global number one seller. Cherry Garcia was a fan suggestion in the top five. A chunky monkey is a top 10 flavor. That was another one. Chubby hubby. We just have such a great, you, you know, your fans understand your products, your values, what you bring to the table. So marketing people don’t underestimate how much power you have connected with your fans. Social media is so easy to have a two way conversation. Don’t make it about a one way conversation, just promoting your products, but get in there and mine some of these amazing opportunities.

Bennie

Right. You know, I will say some of my best experiences trying the extended line of flavors you’ve had is when I’ve gone to the store and you’ve been sold out of Talk2Ship cookie dough. And it’s that great moment where you’re so committed to the brand in a moment. You’re like, well, I’m still going to get Ben and Jerry’s ice cream. What can I get now? And that’s kind of that fun moment of you have that moment of disappointment. My flavor is gone. And then you look next to it and it’s called these unexpected spaces. I think that’s how I ended up with some of the newer flavors. It was like, they don’t have what, let’s see what this is. And then you find that new one, right? That really, I think, shapes how you talk about fan experience.

Sean

Hmm, it certainly helps when we bring out these new flavors all the time and I think one of the things we’ll see is fans will go in and be like, all right, I’m sticking with the OG, I’m grabbing my cookie dough, but I’m also going to try this new flavor, the honey graham latte, because I haven’t seen that before. And I think our fans always love something new. So the hard part for us is the back end of that because there’s only so many slots on the shelf or in the dip case if you’re running a scoop shop. And so when something comes out, you gotta make space for it. So something’s gotta go away. So we actually have both virtually and in actuality, a flavor graveyard at our Waterbury Vermont headquarters, where we lie dearly, deep-pinted flavors to rest. you know, because that way and it’s probably either the top one or two questions when you’re traveling, you got a Ben and Jerry’s, you know, luggage tag on your suitcase. Someone goes, you work for Ben and Jerry’s, must be a great company. You go, yeah, it is, thanks. And they go, why did you get rid of my Bovinny Divinity? I love that flavor, right? And for us, it’s all about fan love. The ones that fans want, we’ve got them out there, but when it drops to like out of 45, 50 flavors, if your flavor is now number 46, well, you better buy a few extra pints and put in the freezer because there’s a good chance something new is coming out and that’s gonna get pushed off to the flavor graveyard.

Bennie

Hahaha Right? Does anything ever get resurrected from the graveyard? Do we have a flavor that has passed its time and then it comes back for you? All right.

Sean

Absolutely. We’ve done, we did a flavor called wavy gravy that was named after the MC of, well, at one of the MCs of Woodstock. He was a Prince clown from the West coast, right? Ran the hog farm, came out, was all about peace and love. had a, what was his famous quote? was like breakfast in bed for 200,000 at Woodstock, something like that. And, you know, was there because his Mary pranksters were about, dealing with groups and keeping it peaceful. And they said, instead of bringing a security force, we’ll love people to get out there and make sure we can stay as this community together. So Wave Gravy has always been a huge icon and idol for Ben and Jerry. And so we created a Wavey Gravy ice cream, also a great Ben and Jerry’s flavor name. So we had that for years. It dropped to the bottom. And so we got rid of it. But that was certainly one of the flavors that has come back in a resurrection. So don’t ever give up if your favorite flavor is there people, write and let us know. We’re always interested to hear what our fans are looking for.

Bennie

I’ll ask this question because I know it’s on top of everyone’s mind. What department or group is responsible for final say on the names?

Sean

No, our marketing team is the ones who usually champion it. But the truth is they usually bring in a cross section of employees from our corporate office. And so you’ll see an email that goes out and it’ll say something like, Hey, we got a new German chocolate cake flavor. We need your help. Come in for the naming. And the sad truth is I get all, you either we’ll get into a meeting or I’ll look at the Excel file that they’ve shared out. Like here’s what we’ve got so far. And the two or three names I could come up with are already on the list. You’re like, wow, there, this is some powerhouse, right? So I’ve only named one flavor in my whole time with Ben and Jerry’s after starting in 1988. And it was when Sir Elton John was coming to Vermont. He had played every other state in the US, all other 49 states, saved Vermont as the best for last. And when he was coming in, we had said, why don’t we do a flavor in his honor? We’ll make it and we’ll sell it, just limited amount, like $10,000 worth and will just group in vermont’s like two thousand servings two thousand ice cream cones and and we donated all the proceeds to his aids foundation that name that i came up with was goodbye yellow brickell road

Bennie

Well. There you go. Look, look, my friend. Now is that sign on your desk somewhere? Do you get do you get records for brag?

Sean

I have, I still have a, an oversized pint of Elton’s flavor that’s like a five foot tall one that he autographed for me that he said, you know, because I come up with the idea. I went to the launch event and got to meet him in the green room and walk him out to the press conference. And he let me run the press conference just very, they were so generous with their time. And it’s a little bit like you were talking before about these partnerships. I think there’s an exponential factor that comes into play with these partnerships that you end up bringing Ben and Jerry’s energy and what our strengths are and our fans and then you go have Elton John fans and you bring those together and you see this boom that happens and so right whether it’s Elton John or any of those fans you know any of the flavors that we have with other partners so you see this impact that way and you know just a tremendous opportunity so we were we’re we’re lucky that way right I can’t imagine Elton John going hey I’m I just had a fried chicken company reach out to me. I’m gonna do a custom bucket of fried chicken when I’m in Vermont I don’t think it’s gonna happen Whereas I think you know he and he was talking about going I love Ben and Jerry’s because of their their values And that’s why I want to work with

Bennie

So really the work that you’ve done and you’ve shown over your time at Pinchary is marketing and PR is more than just words. Talk to me about the advice you’d have for this generation of PR specialists. I know we can get really caught up in this is how you structure a press release. This is how you do a pitch. And that’s a part of all the things we’re doing, and this is how you structure a brief. But there’s so much heart that goes beyond the words. What has been your guide?

Sean

Right there. Like the emotional intelligence piece, we all know AIs around and so that’s going to be a tool we need to use, but I think you can’t have it replace your heart, your soul, your aspirations for the business. And I think that’s one of the things like you know, Ben and Jerry thought outside of the box. If you went to AI and said, hey, give me an answer to this inside the box. It’s not going to come to that when they were creating this company and they said we want it to not take advantage of people. I want to break the business mold. And they said, you know, it hadn’t come to them before. They actually were working for a couple of years when the business first started and they were struggling. And Ben had talked to a friend of his who was a restaurateur and the friend said, well, you know, Ben said, I don’t like the way business is. It takes advantage of people and just maximizes profits. And the guy said, well, if you don’t like it that way, then do it a different way, break the model. And Ben said, you know, he’d never thought of that before. So that idea, think for folks today to think of it going.

How is it that if you’re gonna be a young PR person, I think you gotta think outside the box. You gotta be creative. Your innovation, think, yes, use all the tools that you have that are available to you, but don’t be afraid to let your heart be part of that equation.

Bennie

What a great note to end on. Don’t be afraid to let your heart be a part of the equation. friend, I think that really sums up a wonderful time that you’ve had at Ben & Jerry, but a wonderful time at talking to us about the power of marketing, the power of purpose, the power of doing good while doing well, right? This is incredible journey. And you get to have ice cream all along the way. You’re making good choices, my friend, good choices.

Sean

Three free pints a day, people. That’s the benefit for employees. Come get a job at Ben & Jerry’s. Three free pints a day. We also have a gym, so we try to bounce out. Be healthy, too.

Bennie

Well, that’s what we talked about. That’s the balance of the partnership in there. So yes. And what a wonderful way to end because we need to hire good people, Ben and Jerry’s. Vermont’s finest that is delivering joy and innovation and connection to people and purpose through around the world. And we got a chance to spend just a few minutes with the grand poobah himself and creator of the AMA new theme song. Sean, my friend, thank you so much for being a part of our podcast today.

Sean

Ha Thank you so much for having me, love it, Planets out!

Bennie

Play us out my friend, play us out. And thank you for joining us for this special episode of AMA’s Marketing / And. I’m your host, AMA CEO, Bennie F. Johnson.