Transcript

Bennie F Johnson

Hello, and thank you for joining us for another episode of AMA’s Marketing / And. I’m your host, AMA CEO, Bennie F. Johnson. In our episodes, we explore life through a marketing lens, delving into conversations of individuals that flourish at the intersection of marketing and the unexpected. We hope to introduce you to visionaries whose stories you might not yet have heard of, but are exactly the ones you need to know.

Through our thought provoking conversations, we’ll unravel the challenges, triumphs, and pivotal moments that have been shaped by marketing. Today, we have a very special guest, Islam ElDessouky, Global Vice President, Creative Strategy and Content for Coca-Cola. He has been a driving force behind Coca-Cola’s most successful and impactful campaigns ever produced. His obsession with creating genuinely clutter breaking work has seen him rise to the ranks at Coca-Cola over the last few years. Islam is a true believer in storytelling. He believes in the power to trigger, enable, and drive behaviors in a remarkable and fascinating way. He’s found a passion in marketing, a field which made him realize the potential of both telling stories and more importantly, how we can build love brands that impact the way people’s lives in a more meaningful way.

Islam, my friend, welcome to the podcast.

Islam ElDessouky 

Thank you for having me, super happy to be here and looking forward to this exciting chat.

Bennie 

My goodness, it’s such a great opportunity for us to talk and the work that you’ve been doing at Coca-Cola has really been exciting and unexpected. I want to start off though with something in your bio that really piqued my curiosity. And it’s kind of the moment that was so human and so relatable. You said you work every day to make your mom proud.

Islam

100% 100%

Bennie

Tell me, tell me a little bit more. How did you find your way into marketing? And as a path to make our moms proud, I know it took me, I try to keep my mom proud. It took me a few years for her to understand what marketing actually was and what I was doing. She was proud, but it took a minute to understand what was happening. know, and it probably took not more than a few of these podcasts conversations for.

Islam 

Ha!

Bennie

Both my mother and my mother-in-law to finally go, I get it. Now I understand what you’re doing. But talk about that as it drives a young Islam going into marketing.

Islam 

I appreciate that. I’m sure your mom and everyone around you is super proud and I can tell from the energy and from everything you’ve accomplished, I do believe that people are a fusion of other people, events and circumstances. And I’ve had the blessing to be the son of this wonderful woman. She’s no longer with us. I think God chose her to be by his side. But I’m so grateful for her to be the school of life for me. I learned so many things that still drive my day to day, whether personally or professionally. And I did make her a promise at the crossroads. was still like one year fresh off college. And I was like, I call it like it’s the question mark era. Like when you just graduated from college and have so many question marks, like I want to change the world in this. I want to do this. I want to earn money quickly. I want to like, there’s a lot of things that you have in your mind. And then she taught me a few things and she’s like, Hey, if you follow these two things,

Bennie 

Right.

Islam 

You will be successful in whatever you do. I told her, you know what? And I’ll make you proud just because you said that. I will always make you proud. And one was love. She was like, you always have to be driven by love. Love should be the motivation. Motivation should not be anything else, should not be unrest, should not be vengeance, should not be hatred, should not be anything. If you’re driven by love, it’s the biggest and most outstanding driver in life. Whether towards your family, towards yourself, towards anything. And the second one, which her and my eldest son share in common, the relentless belief that kindness is a superpower that can change the world. And I’ve seen that in action all through her life. I’ve learned and I’ve been taught about it from my eldest son the hardest way. And I told her, you know what? I’ll be driven by love and kindness and I’ll make you proud. One day you will be looking up.

Bennie

Yes. Right.

Islam

And we’re looking down now and you’ll be seeing the man that you’ve raised and that you’ll be very proud of what you’ve achieved.

Bennie

Wow, that’s an incredible way to even start our conversation. And I know it’s going to be a theme that goes through to see the joy in your face when you talk about that. So let’s talk about this kind of unexpected but powerful career you’ve been building at Coca-Cola. So we were talking before, you didn’t start off in Atlanta at the heart of Coca-Cola. So talk about how you entered into Coca-Cola. It’s a truly global story.

Islam

True.

Bennie

Of global brand that often doesn’t have stories that start off globally.

Islam 

You know, it’s one of those trajectories that when you’re asked, like, before it started, would you see yourself where you are right now? And the answer is always no. And I think that’s what’s fascinating about life and about endeavors in general. Even when, and now is the start of a lot of sports seasons, the NFL is about to start, the NBA is going to start a month after. And I like to see all of these pundits and everybody talk about predictions and who’s going to be this and who’s going to be that and coach of the year and MVP and whatnot.

Bennie

Right.

Islam

And the way it started for me, I started on a small little island called Bahrain. I was in charge of, I think one of the brands that you like, I know you love Sprite and I started on Sprite for a couple, and I love Sprite too. I think it’s a fascinating brand in our portfolio. And I started on Sprite for a couple of years and the brand was stagnant, was not growing, tough market and everything. And then it started to grow. I’m a big believer of basics and fundamentals as well, even personally.

Bennie 

Okay. Hahaha! Mm-hmm. Right.

Islam

Like when you feel that things are really not working, the beauty is the basics and the fundamentals do not change. And if you fix them, they always push you forward. Always. So we did that on Sprite and they were like, Hey, you’re doing such a great job on Sprite. Let’s push you a little bit. So I changed territories. So I moved to Central Asia and Turkey, stayed in charge of Sprite. added Fanta. And then I did a good job there as well. And then they pushed me on Coke and I’ve been on Coca-Cola brand almost most of my career in the company. Going through numerous geographies and numerous roads. And then I think at the end of 2020, the company made one of its most radical changes ever, which is called Emerging Stronger. The company is like, hey, 2020 pandemic is here. Many things are changing. We’ve been asking ourselves a lot of questions. How do we set this company to succeed for another 150 years?

And we restructured everything, roads, geographies, structures, even the way we do marketing, the marketing model change and whatnot. And there, when people try to figure out a structure, I thought this is a big opportunity. I’m like, hey, I’ve been on the front line. I’ve been in the field for quite some time. Maybe it’s time for me to push myself and stretch my muscle and try to get some global roles. And luckily I landed. Same role that I have on Coke, but on another portfolio, which is the hydration and sports beverages. So I was on smart water, power, vitamin water, and more, coffee and tea brands. So I took that role for a couple of years and then to my luck as well, impact was there. So then they moved me on my favorite brand, which is Coca-Cola. So I’ve been on Coke for like now two years plus leading it globally, frightening, but exciting at the same time. And yeah.

Bennie 

Okay, yes. Okay. So talk to me about that tension, right? It’s the, I’ve never seen someone’s eyes light up as much as yours did when you said frightening.

Islam

It is frightening because it’s an icon. Like imagine they just come and tell you, mean, which sport do you like, Bennie? I think I’m always referring to sports.

Bennie

I like all sports, but you can give me football, you can give me basketball, you can give me soccer. I probably everything but pickleball, my friend, everything but pickleball.

Islam 

So what? That’s fair enough. So what would be your team of choice? What’s like if you define yourself identity wise, what’s the team that you would classify as a diehard?

Bennie

My goodness. You know, I can’t. I think what’s happened over the years for me is I’m a big fan of sports. I’m a big fan of the story and the narrative. I love the strategy. I love being in the moment. That’s to say that I live in a city that hasn’t won a championship in one of my sports in years. So that’s what happened. So I root through everyone else, right?

Islam

Fair enough, fair enough. I live in a similar place.

Bennie

So I’ve always, remember growing up when you’d have some, let’s say, diehard friends that I grew up with, where I’d always have people would say, I want to see a good game. I want to go see a match. And I never used to understand that. And now I do. Right. I feel this. I’m looking back and forth at the individual battles and strategies and the excitement of being in the space as a sport. that long winded answer, but that’s my, that’s like.

Islam

Fair enough, fair enough. I’ll tell you, I think the reason why it’s frightening because if you love something so much, it’s because of what it stands for, because of the associations that you make. So for example, I’m a basketball guy. So my team is Miami Heat and I love the Miami Heat because of everything that Mr. Pat Riley has instilled in that organization. The grit, the culture, awesome.

Bennie

Right, right. Yes. Yes, much respect on that one. Much respect. Yeah, yeah.

Islam

So if Pat comes to me and he’s like, hey, I’m giving you the keys to Miami Heat. It’s yours Islam to figure it out as a fan, as an avid fan, I’d be scared, scared of the notion of that I would make decisions or I would make choices that break this association or change it to something that it did not stand for. So Coca-Cola is the same. Coca-Cola is one of the very few brands that are so iconic that everybody can. Talk about them with the same feeling. We always say Coca-Cola is a feeling. So when I say Coca-Cola to a lot of people, it brings the same set of emotions and associations. So when you get to be in charge of everything that communicates on Coca-Cola, it is frightening that am I gonna be able to live up to what all those giants before me have built? Am I gonna be responsible enough to keep these associations and further grow them to become even more and more? So that’s the frightening part that you’re entrusted with something.

Bennie

Right, right. Right, right.

Islam

That is so iconic that it is mentioned in almost every marketing book that you want to make sure that you live up to that and push it a little bit forward, positively speaking. That’s the frightening part.

Bennie 

Right. Right. And it, it is, and it starts to create this new style innovators dilemma, invention dilemma, right? Because you’re always playing with that. One of my favorite Coca-Cola programs that I came across a few years ago, and I saw it in my city was actually really brilliant where the company was going into communities and finding legacy mural ads that had been painted generations before.

Islam 

Absolutely.

Bennie

And then working with the community to restore that kind of space. We have one in my neighborhood here and it’s great because they’ve repainted it fresh and new, but you still have the artifact of 60 years ago, 70 years ago. This alleyway was in a giant Coca-Cola mural that was brilliant, that was still preserved on the side of the building. And it was like, I always get excited about that because it’s that tension you talk about. It’s this legacy piece that doesn’t exist. We’re not paying five cents for a Coca-Cola ever again, But it’s this fresh unexpected space in which you’re pushing the brand forward.

Islam

Yeah. 100%. I mean, we, so I always say Coca-Cola is timeless and timely. And it’s that to your point, it’s that interesting dichotomy of things. And I’m happy to hear about this program because we’ve been doing a lot of these programs in the last couple of years as well, where we came with that pragmatic shift of, sure, we work with a lot of creators and influencers and whatnot.

But there’s a lot of creators and ambassadors that are outside of the social media spectrum because it just, you get pushed into, creator or ambassador or influencer has to be on social media, which we love. And we work with a lot of people. But to your point, a brand so deep in culture and with such legacy, we were able to find a lot of creators and ambassadors to your point on murals, moms and pops. So we did a program last year since we spoke about Cannes. Last year we won with something called Thanks for Coke Creating, where we went to all of these moms and pops that take our brand and try to show with pride that they are selling Coca-Cola and pushing Coca-Cola and what we used to think of as infringement, we were like, but that’s a manifestation of pride and love. So it’s.

Bennie 

Yes. It really is. My goodness. I’m so glad you brought that up first. Blown away by that program and the global embrace that it had with that. And I got a chance to watch it be played in an audience and people sitting next to hadn’t seen it in the reaction because so much of when we think about brands, right? We think about how many of our listeners have their brand guide on click right now.

Islam

100%.

Bennie

It’s the first thing you send to your creators. The first thing you go in there. I even on our AMA face got a request this weekend. Can you send us the brand guide, right? It’s all these things that are locked in, but you’re brilliant in saying that my brand actually transcends the rules and regulations here to kind of this point of love. And I encourage those who haven’t seen the campaign to check it out. These are mom and pops all over the globe who are making their own version of Coke.

Islam

That’s true. And I agree with you. I think, look, the guidance and the guidelines and being meticulous about it is what made Coca-Cola be worth of tens of billions of dollars today. It’s what made us iconic. And I think it’s that when we were having the internal conversations, people are like, but you’re going and infringing the guidelines. And then we were like, regularly, we do not regularly. We would push anybody against infringing our marks because that’s what we stand for.

Bennie

Yeah. Right. Right.

Islam

But these moms and pops, like one of them was in Australia in a village in a town that has a population of 200. I’m like that person sits in the middle of that town with his store showing us every day. There isn’t any other connection point that can have a stronger and deeper impact in that community versus that person. Is he infringing? Yes, he is. But is he actually doing it to infringe? No, he’s doing it because he wanted to showcase that he’s a proud Coca-Cola partner. And that’s what matters more. You know what I mean?

Bennie

Right, right. know, it’s that love that we talked about before, our partnership, right? Because underneath, when we embrace a brand, we’re building up those emotions of love and joy and pride. And I think, you know, to your point, what blew me away is it untapped that kind of unspoken part of marketing for us, right? That once we have the fundamentals in there,

Islam

100%

Bennie 

Taking a step and going, what are we really about? And kind of space in there. So, you know, one of the things that I loved about it is it was completely unexpected. It goes against the kind of the formal framework and everything else. I’m going to ask you about a campaign and you already said it is one of your favorites, but I love it because it went against the unexpected. So talk about the moment that Coca-Cola collides with Mondolese and you come up with the limited edition.

Islam

100% Ha!

Bennie 

Oreo Coca-Cola sugar-free. Talk about the black and silver can, the mashup of two unexpected iconic brands, and how much fun was this to put together?

Islam

100 percent. I mean, it is one of my favorite programs to talk about. I was very fortunate to be a member of the team that worked on this. I have to give a lot of kudos to the Mondelez folks because they were also very open, flexible, agile on how we crafted this. The reason why it is so beautiful is when we started thinking about it, we came to your point, like, what is the essence of partnership? Like, what does a partnership look like? And we were like…If you look at the partnership between, I don’t know, a married couple, or if you look up a partnership between two friends, or any other relationship between two, it is inevitable that the two would shape one another. It has to have that effect of going both ways. And we were like, there are a lot of collabs and partnerships out there that are one-sided. So you go to, I don’t know, you check, I don’t know, a luxury brand and a… I don’t know, a sneaker brand, and then you would have a shoe or you would have a t-shirt on the luxury brand. Like we didn’t have this combination. So we’re like, Hey, what if we do a beverage and a cookie? So we shape your cookie and you shape our beverage, right? Like that’s partnership. That’s like way, because when we hang out together and that actually brought to birth the idea of besties that were best friends, because you have this impact on one another, you would refer to your best friend and something that they do.

Bennie

Right. Right. Right, right.

Islam

You know what I mean? Like I would, like we were just talking also earlier that I have a Coke Zero for breakfast. And I heard from Amy lovely, who’s helping us on this. She’s like, my husband does the same. we, and now we remember every time I’m going to have a Coke Zero for breakfast that Amy’s husband does that at the same time. So similarly, we wanted to have this impact. And then they were like, you know what, let’s do this. And the world reacted in that sense. I want to try the beverage and I want to try the cookie and see the impact of one. Like you want to.

Bennie

Right. Yes. Yes.

Islam

See where the coke comes into the cookie and you want to see where the Oreo comes into the beverage, you know what I mean? And then it became that unstoppable force of this besties notion, you know what I mean? So.

Bennie

Right, right. Right. I love that in that moment because we all look for kind the unexpected in the partnership, right? This is the, this is the two plus two is more. And was a great example of that. Well, you have these storied brands, right? How can you surprise me? How can you delight me? How can you drive joy? And yeah, this was that moment. You were like, okay. And then you wanted to try it, right? I will try it. I showed you the can this morning because I have the can in there.

Islam

Correct. Absolutely. Yes you did.

Bennie

The cookies did not last. I’m just gonna let you know the cookies did not.

Islam

Hahaha!

Bennie

I held onto one can for being the brand nerd that I am. I was like, I need to hold onto this. But I am human and the cookies did not last. I just want to explain that. But you know, we talk a lot about marketing and our careers and our lives in terms of relationships. And one of the relationships that we see is a type of relationship that’s really important, I know it’s important to you as well is mentorship.

Islam

You’re a good man.

Bennie

So talk a bit about the role that mentorship has played for you as you’ve grown in your career and how you see that as a way to strengthen others.

Islam

Absolutely, it’s such a brilliant question and kudos to you for talking about it because I don’t think we talk about, we talk enough about the topic of mentorship. There is one inevitable truth I think about our species, which is people need people no matter what, socially, financially, I mean in every aspect of the way. And I find sometimes people used to look at mentorship as this person can help me land the next job or this person can actually get me into this network. And I find that these are different. This is career management, networking, but mentorship should be someone that can open their book of how they lived through life and share with you their critical experiences and tell you how they navigated it because then it inspires you. And I think if I’ve been… Reading last year about atomic habits, the book, and how these atomic habits really can become life-changing because they’re small atomic, but if you do them frequently, you enter into a course of change and change gets you into the growth mindset and then you create more impact. And for me, like mentorship, I find it in ways where I ask for it. So I can go and ask someone that I feel inspired by their journey to get to learn from them, but also life.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Islam

Can throw people at you to become mentors and then you follow them at your choice. You don’t need to have the one-on-one session. I’ll shock you with one example that I tell people and people are like, really? And I’m like, yeah, I learn a lot from following that human. I’m an obsessive fan. I don’t like the Milwaukee Bucks, but I love Yanis. His persona and the way he lives and the way he navigates, his humility yet his greatness at the same time.

Bennie

Okay. Okay. Okay, yeah.

Islam

If I tell you one thing that I learned from a lot and I refer to it quite a lot, like when he had this press interview and they were asking him if the season would be considered as a failure and that clip of his answer traveled to LinkedIn, not the world, LinkedIn. Everybody was sharing it on LinkedIn. like, that’s precisely why this guy is a mentor to me, because he said something about failure and success working every year, working every day. What is the impact in professional life?

So beautiful that a lot of actual corporate leaders wouldn’t be able to tell you that. For me, that’s mentorship. For me, that’s someone that the way he jokes, the way he went and had, I think, I don’t remember which fast food chain he went to, but when he won the title with the bucks, when they got it, he went that day to a fast food chain and he ordered a big order just to celebrate. Now this is something so relevant, so human.

Bennie

Right. Right.

Islam

That I’m like one of the greatest athletes, a person who probably watches everything that they do is showing that this is how he wants to celebrate. And it’s so true. It’s so human. You know what I mean? So I think mentorship to me, yes, there could be a structured process oriented way of doing it and people should volunteer for it because it consumes time both ways. But I think also to me, like you don’t, you can try to figure out self mentorship from everybody around you.

Bennie

Right. Right.

Islam

I mean, listening to your podcast is a mentorship. It’s not, it’s not a training. It’s mentorship, hearing what you find interesting in the person that you’re talking to your questions, your energy is when they’re like, spoke about my eyes shine. Your energy talking is just contagious, man. Like I want to talk to you the whole time. So I think you find mentorship. If you have the desire to be mentored, which I think is the question of people come to me like, can you be my mentor? I’m like, do you have a desire to be mentored? Because mentorship is not about giving you answers, it’s about sharing and then you get to the answers yourself. So I find your podcast as a great tool of mentorship as well.

Bennie 

Oh my goodness, that is such high praise my brother. I appreciate that. You just, you don’t know how much I appreciate that moment. I’m going to continue now that I know what your breakfast drink of choice is. And you know, at the time it’s recording, we’re kind of at that point where breakfast is just subsided, but we’re not at lunch. So I’m going to ask you a question. Your cup is now half full. How do you replenish your creative store? How do you now think about it? What adds to this at this point? I’ve got you enough caffeine to get you started for the day. So how are you replenishing your creativity?

Islam

That’s a beautiful question. The honest answer is that I made a decision to believe that I am always work in progress. There isn’t a moment where I feel accomplished anymore. and I learned this from, again, I’m sorry I mentioned a lot of sports, I find it, find, because some people don’t necessarily relate to the topic or relate to the learnings that you get from there, but I am fascinated with it, specifically basketball.

Bennie 

Mm-hmm. Right. No apologies needed.

Islam 

And I learned a lot from my mom, but I learned a lot from basketball. So if I look at Kobe Bryant and people always talk about him in the greatness conversation, the Mamba mentality that he created had one principle that I felt is super critical for anybody who wants to continue to grow, which is today I’m going to try to be better than yesterday. As simple as that. As simple as that. So today I want to see if I can create better social communication with consumers, if I can create better experiences, if I can create a better film.

Bennie

Yes. Yes. Right.

Islam

So if you have this constant moving target of today I want to be better than yesterday, the glass will always be actually mostly empty because you just finished. You just emptied the morning you woke up. So that’s what I look for to a lack never look at myself as accomplished at all because if you do, it’s a trap. A, you become arrogant. B, you start having ego. And all of these are really hurdles and enemies of a proper, pure creative process.

Bennie

Right. And it’s so important in our lives, and especially as brand leaders, when we end up with these storied and legacy brands. I tell my teams all the time that I believe in better, right? So we always have an opportunity to be better, right? And so that gets you out of being rested on, yes, we won, we talk about teams and everything else. Teams are a good example for me for sports teams. And I love the storied teams who’ve won a ton of championships. So I will say this, I will concede, I live in Washington, so I’m going to use this example to make me smile. So like the Dallas Cowboys have won five championships. And it’s interesting to watch every season, they start off talking about the fact they’ve won five championships. But the brutal reality is the team that’s playing today has won nothing. Right. And so that championship or relevance is something we have to learn and earn every day.

Islam 

Correct? Correct?

Bennie

But it always shocks me with the teams. Bring out the history and they bring out five trophies or you bring out six trophies and you have nothing to do with that.

Islam

And by the way, I’m a Dallas Cowboys fan. I completely, completely understand what you say. People, when I moved to the US, people are like, why are you a fan of the Dallas Cowboys? I’m like, because I am a foreigner. I grew up abroad. I started watching NFL in the nineties and guess who was killing it in the nineties? It’s to your point. That’s the team that was winning it. And then loyalty comes in because you need loyalty. So I can just move. can become like a Kansas Chiefs fan.. Decade like no, I’m a cowboys fan and we’ll see what our friend Jerry Jones does with the team and, but yeah.

Bennie

Right. You’re committed to hang in. can. But my deal in the mid Atlantic area, I, my son questioned my logic of my fandom and I had no answer for him because fandom is not rational. Right. And he did the stats between the team in Washington and the team in Baltimore and could not understand why I picked the team in Washington with all the things in Baltimore.

Islam

100%

Bennie 

And I had no answer, my friend. literally had, was like, I don’t know. It doesn’t add up. But, but there, I think there are lessons for us in that space. And as brand and brand marketers in that, that sometimes the affinity that we’re gifted with of our brands are not rational, but it’s real and material to our brand. And as you said, we have that responsibility as brand leaders. How do we then add on that and, and pull that, that forward?

Islam

100%

Bennie

So when you think about the world that you have now at Coca-Cola compared to the world when you first started, what are some of the things that excite you the most now?

Islam

Ah, I mean, to be honest with you, the beauty of working for the Coca-Cola company and the brand, you never come into a place where you feel, my God, now I have to rebuild or now I have to shape this up. Like it’s, it’s an organization that’s been shiny for 140 years. But I think it’s that, it’s that actually that anxiety that comes to you of what would my impact be? Because like I said in the just seconds ago. You come in such a good spot that you’d be like, okay, what do I do to make this even better? Because it’s, it’s, and that’s the frightening element I spoke about earlier. I think what excites me is this ability for everybody to unlearn. Because you could be very arrogant in what worked for almost a century and a half, right? You’ll be like, but we’ve done this. Like we know we got this, but no, and in reality, the culture still always is questioning, looking forward to the future.

Bennie

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

Islam

Being very critical of what did not work so that we can learn from it and get better. Look out, I mean, externally, listen to things, talk to people and so forth. So I think I’m excited with what’s coming on Coca-Cola. Like I see that all the signs are grooming for an even better decade coming ahead.

Bennie

Right. Right. Well, you know, one of things that I find interesting is how Coke and even in your role in the path is able to benefit from merging global trends and kind of folding it into marketing spaces and seeing things that are happening that you guys are doing in the UK showing up here, seeing what’s happening in Atlanta, showing up in the Middle East. But then you have these kind of moments where you’re connected with global stage, where Coke is very much connected to football and soccer everywhere in the space in there. And as we get into this kind of moment of World Cups, what are you thinking about in that space? mean…

Islam 

I think there are two things that come and push one another. And I think it’s a dichotomy as well. One is we are more similar than different as a species, right? Like we all want to love and be loved. We all want shelter. We want this, we want that. I mean, I haven’t seen a person who is necessarily not looking for a hug. They tell you seven hugs a day makes you the happiest. So I think there is this notion that, hey, I am originally Egyptian. So I can, as an Egyptian. Enjoy watching the Dallas Cowboys, just like someone in Dallas, Texas. Right? So there’s a lot of, and as a fan, I would, I would do the same that you just described. I come every season and feel, we’re going to the Super Bowl. We won five times. did like, and I’m Egyptian. I haven’t been to the AT&T stadium that much. have like, but there is a lot of similarity that gravitates us all together. But the second one is also, it is very true that communities and cultures have a lot of nuances from either sensitivity perspective or differences perspective as well. So I think fusing the two and having the ability to be able to understand when you dial up one versus the other makes the job absolutely done. So in a lot of moments we feel that we’re also blessed that the brand is so globally recognized. We always say, Coca-Cola is more present in countries more than the United Nations. And you also have Coca-Cola index, like I used to remember when you read Lonely Planet guides for wherever you go and you want to understand pricing of a certain country and how do you buy a meal or do this, you have the Coca-Cola index and sometimes you have the McDonald’s index too, where they tell you a Coca-Cola costs X here so that you can make the ratios and so forth accordingly. So that’s a blessing that we have, but at some times we need to understand the local nuances and the cultural meanings and sensitivity so that we are not by any means trying to push a global agenda and then turn off a certain community because everybody is important and everybody is meaning-fed so you’ve got to really distinguish between the two.

Bennie

Right, right. When we think about the evolution in the space. So what are ways that, you know, when you have a brand that everyone feels like they’re a part of, you know, that was the brilliant of the con space in there. How are you navigating that space with both your internal authenticity, but then using, you know, the co-creation model with kind of Coke becomes a part of all of our experiences. I know in the brand book, would have that Coke is a part of your family reunion, right? If there’s not Coke there at the family reunion, the family reunion is not the same. So how do you find yourself managing that where there is a co-creation, co-experience entitlement with the brand, right? We talk as much about we don’t own brands as much as we’re kind of stewards of the experience.

Islam

True, very true. I I think it’s the main question you’re asking, Mani. think brands should be very well defined so that they’re able to operate. And I think any brand should have a set of values that govern any relationship to your point, any experience. Because end of the day, when I interact with your brand, when I experience it, it comes with an expectation. And this expectation is built on the associations and the shared values I’ve built through the years with that brand.

Bennie

Right? Yes.

Islam 

On the case of Coca-Cola in specific, it has a tripod that never changed. This is the timeless aspect of it. The brand is always very authentic. The brand is always after inclusion and connection and the brand seeks relentlessly to uplift people positively, socially, emotionally and whatnot. So if you look at anything you’re doing and it doesn’t tick those three boxes, then it’s not for the brand to operate. And then it means you should not venture into it, which is sometimes this is the issue of the timely because timeless is clear, but timeless. Sometimes you have trends, you have things happening. Can we join this? Like, I don’t know the cold play concert and the big thing that happens in the saga. I personally did not appreciate that brands are jumping into this conversation. I felt it’s a personal matter and we let it be, but some people might ask you the question. Are we going to do something about it? And the question is, okay, is, does it positively uplift people? I think they know. Is it really about connection? It’s actually the opposite. And so once you get these answers, you’ll be like, then this is not for us, so move on. We will have our time. The beauty of humanity, it offers you moments and stories and things happening all the time. We’re a dynamic species. We will never rest. You know what I mean?

Bennie 

Right. Right. Right. Right. And I think that’s a great, that’s a great kind of matrix or framework for you. Right. Does it allow your brand to rise to the moment? Right. Are you sinking in the moment or are you rising in the moment? And that’s a great space in there. Right. You said sometimes it’s like, no, I’m to sit out this one. I’m going to sit out this one for my brand because is there any incremental value? No. Is it something that I can look back and be proud of?

Islam

Absolutely. 100% Absolutely. Absolutely.

Bennie 

Of my decision with the brand. Yeah, it’s so important in that space. Now, one of the things that I appreciate is you’re not only winning awards, my friend, but you volunteer your time to help in kind of sorting through the best of us and excellence and space in there. know, talk a bit about how, you know, how is serving as a judge on like on panels help you as a marketer?

Islam

Correct. That’s actually, I am very selfish in doing so because, because it is, it is a land of learning and it’s on steroids because every brand is trying to showcase and manifest the best of the best of what they’ve done. And you’ll be sitting there for like a couple of days, looking at all of these cases and it is so enriching. So I think from a selfish perspective.

I will always judge if I can, if people want me there and all that. But I think the second one, which is your commitment to the community and to the industry, is that whatever wins and whatever goes out there, it is a big responsibility from any judge, jury, presidents, and all of these festivals to know that this is a massive piece of learning for the community and for the industry. So we got to ask ourselves very, very tough questions in these rooms. Is this really learning?

That the industry is looking for, especially when you judge things like creative effectiveness, because you’d have people who would tell you, but yeah, creativity is nice, you win stuff and you do this, but it doesn’t drive the business. So that jury room has to actually make up the case of the opposite. No, it is actually a business discipline that can actually push your business forward. So we have to show these cases accordingly. So I think the responsibility aspect of it is grand.

Like I do not take any jury or judge responsibility lightly. I haven’t seen people in any room people take it the other way around as well. I think everybody tries so hard to put in learning that can help the whole industry.

Bennie

And that’s kind of true part. It’s what I love what we do at the AMA as well in there. This is a part of building a profession for all, like, setting in standards and standards in action, right? Because what was effective 20 years ago is not effective today. It won’t be effective for tomorrow. How do we kind of grow and, and award that? I love, you know, in your bio, you talk about being driven by ideas that achieve results.

Islam

Absolutely. 100%

Bennie 

But you go a little further to talk about those results being both creative and strategic. And I think having that balance that it can be beautiful and drive the business at the same time is important.

Islam

Correct. 100%. And on that, Bennie, first on the AMA, I’m a massive fan. So you can also count on me. I’m happy to volunteer for any, I mean, it’s on record, it’s on the podcast. I’m yours. But I think on your point, I couldn’t agree more about creative and strategic. I call it swaggy, but with substance. Like you don’t have to look just good and have zero substance whatsoever. I have to look good, yes, but also I have to drive forward.

Bennie

It’s on record. It’s on the podcast. I’ve already called you up. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. So, so because we’re doing swagging substance and I know a little secret about you, I’m going to ask the question, what’s the latest pair of kicks you purchase? What’s the latest pair? What are you doing?

Islam 

I was extremely lucky to win the raffle of the undefeated Jordan 4.

Bennie 

Nice.

Islam

I haven’t received it yet, but I’m waiting for that. I’ll take a picture, send it to you when I do the unboxing and all.

Bennie

That’s nice. That’s nice. I’m looking for that. That is that is awesome. I will tell you my last shoe because we’ll be brand balanced here. My last shoe was a limited edition dusty pink suede Adidas Samba.

Islam 

Boom! Send me a picture of that! Sambas are killing it, Adidas is doing a great job.

Bennie

I will send you, I will send you. I actually got respect from my teams, which is, it’s great. I, that doesn’t always happen all the time. It’s rare. And then they questioned why I was spending their money on shoes for me, but you know, we digress.

Islam 

That’s rare. That is rare.

Bennie

But sometimes, you can say, you get to have the unexpected delight, right? And having that moment and growing up in a space in which, you know, sneakers and being involved in that space, I will tell you, I never thought I’d be sitting here as CEO of an organization, talking to the VP of a global company and laughing about what pair of shoes we just bought.

Islam

Absolutely. 100% me neither. So true.

Bennie

And that’s a beautiful part of kind of our brand and our moment and being able to embrace that space. So I’m going to, you know, when we think about kind of journeys and where we started, you we started talking about our families and that influence and us looking over a career journey in there. If you were to look back, what advice would you have for the younger version of Islam? What advice would you have?

Islam

I think advice is in certain moments would have been patience. I think in certain phases in your life, you’re running faster and it probably comes with either age or with the tempo that you’re in or both. Second advice would be to really try as hard to understand this notion of work in progress. That there isn’t an accomplishment as such ever because you live through life and then… It’s over. And then there is no accomplishment that lasts in an eternal matter. And I haven’t, I haven’t learned this like in the past. I’ve learned it recently and it put a lot of peace in me and how I can navigate topics because every topic sounds to me like to your point on winning the game, you feel like going into that game, that life is going to end if you don’t win that game. Well, guess what? You’re to play the game a following day and a following day and a following day. So, so that would be something that could have helped me in a lot of moments in the past to have. A slightly smoother kind of experience going through certain things.

Bennie

Right. Well, you know, I think that’s incredible advice to end on, right? That, that it’s not about just the one game. It’s about continuing in this space. And I think my friend, you’re just such a living embodiment of seeking out and building better stories, building better brands and better relationships. My friend, thank you so much for being a part of our humble podcast here and sharing all the stories in the space.

Islam

I appreciate that. 100%

Bennie 

And thank you for thinking that you could make cookies and soda one in the same. I just, appreciate you for that. And what a wonderful space of also letting our audience know that one of the hearts of loving your brand is opening up so that you can share that love. And so it’s been a pleasure. And with the cons, Effie, all the word award winning.

Islam

100% Likewise.

Bennie

VP of Creator for Coca-Cola. Thank you for joining us for this episode of AMAs Marketing / And I thank you all for listening. encourage you to continue to embrace your brands and open them up for the world. I encourage you to be a part of the work we do in sharing your brands with AMA. Thank you.

Islam

Thank you, Bennie.