Transcript

Bennie F Johnson

In today’s episode, we explore life through a marketing lens, delving into conversations with individuals that flourish at this intersection of marketing and the unexpected. We’ll introduce you to visionaries whose stories you might not yet have heard of, but are exactly the ones you need to know. Through our thought-provoking conversations, we’ll unravel the challenges, triumphs, and pivotal moments that have been shaped by marketing.

Today, our special guest is a dear friend, Samuel Mone. Once a reformed marketer, now a marketing reformer. I’ll say that again. That really kind of drives our conversation today. Once a reformed marketer, now a marketing reformer. Sam is co-founder and co-CEO of Purpose Hive, a purposeful growth strategy and solutions company based in New York City. He brings an incredible wealth of experience in scaling trust, brand building culture, and driving transformational growth. A former SVP of revenue and sales and marketing at Sustainable Brands, an ex-global brand and business management leader for brands including Center of Excellence roles at P &G, Ron, Campbell’s, Granger, and Safeway. He co-hosts the Marketing Transform Podcast and is an adjunct professor who’s taught international business and most recently brand strategy at DePaul University in Chicago. A Brit of Ghanaian heritage. He’s lived in Germany, Switzerland, and now calls New York home. And I’m going to add this and through thick and thin on the pitch, he’s a supporter of the mighty Manchester United football team. won’t hold that against him. Samuel, welcome to the podcast, my friend. How are you doing?

Samuel Monnie 

Let’s go, let’s go. Red devils, let’s go. I had to add that in.

I’m doing great. And yes, through thick and thin, I support my football team. I know all this stuff, the preamble is all great, but that’s the bit which got my heart, you know? So I’m feeling some way when I hear that name, I sit up straight and I get happy or sad. So yes, thanks for having me. I’m super excited to be here and super excited to get in some great conversation with you.

Bennie 

Well, I am excited as well. And I will tell you full disclosure. One of my favorite photographs that I took was last year. We had our chef doctoral consortium in Manchester and I got a private tour of a man you stadium. Yes. I forgot to tell you that. Yes.

Samuel

Hmm. You didn’t tell me that to this audience. You’re hearing this for the first time myself. Life. Wow.

Bennie 

You’re hearing this for the first time. I’ll send you the photo. I took a great selfie lining up to the pitch at Man U and it was awesome.

Samuel 

Wow, look at that. See the perks you get. Well, living the dream Benny. One day I’ll be like you.

Bennie 

It’s all right. No, this is better in this space of there. I want to talk about your, you know, your tagline, as we talked in there, the quote that you reference also of being a reformed marketer. And now being a marketing reformer, I truly love this. Talk about how you found yourself in that moment.

Samuel

Yeah, it’s been a journey throughout my career in marketing. was always driven by curiosity and the pursuit of more what’s next, what’s around the corner. So that’s what took me from retail to from the brand side to the retail side, from England to Switzerland and then Germany and now in the U S. So I’ve always been curious about what’s next. And I was in marketing as a practitioner then, as an instructor teaching marketing and moved into digital transformation. And I was always searching for what’s next, what’s more, what’s really explanatory. And then I moved into more of the sustainability and purpose space and I realized, wow, now there’s a whole new world that’s open to me and seeing that, you what I’d learned in the past, there is just a whole new way of thinking about it. And the way we’ve been trained, there’s a whole new way to evolve it. And so for me, the mission became being a marketer and realizing that there’s an opportunity to reform how marketing is to have a positive impact going forward on people, planet and nature. And so that’s the journey I took throughout my career. Always curious, always learning, always asking questions. And whenever you’re challenged, you can either be defensive or you can just, well, what can I learn from this? How can I grow from this? And that’s the mindset I’ve always had.

Bennie 

I love that. And when we think about, you think about being reformed, it’s really this moment for you of redefinition as well. Like what does new growth look like, sound like? Where does it show up? When you talk a lot about sustainable economy, you talk about the peas and you we.

In marketing and at the AMA in particular, we’re always talking about the roots of marketing and we think about the four Ps, but you offer for us a redefinition of the five Ps in this space. Speak a bit about that. I’d love for our audience to hear about this approach.

Samuel 

Yeah, you know, I was trained in marketing conventional way back in the day. And the four P’s of product price place and promotion, kind of the conventional four P’s. That’s what I learned. And I, even at the time I would have write my essays when I was studying that and I was like challenging those, but who am I to challenge the Cotlands of this world and the David Arcas of this world? But interestingly, David Arca or Aiko, however you pronounce his name in the US he’s now added purpose as a fifth P.

So the marketing thought leaders have added purpose as their P. And so I see it as a springboard to the future. So where I’m going with purpose, if you say, we agree that purpose is now one of the marketing principles, I focus on people and that leadership with empathy and compassion. I talk about progress, innovation that really brings solutions that are better than where we are today. I talk about prosperity because we need to move beyond the P and L to be more balanced and more human. And of course I add planet to the piece about models that overturn the extractive practices. So for my five P’s, the purpose, people, progress, prosperity, and planet.

Bennie 

Wow. I think it’s really kind of like putting a pin in that for that moment. Really powerful to reframe it in that space. Because, you know, when we think about these spaces in there, I know that there’s a natural tension that we hear when you’re trained to focus on growth, growth, growth for the sake of growth, profit for the sake of profit. But to speak about this balance of prosperity in a space that implies that everyone can win.

Samuel 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Right. Right. Yes.

Bennie 

Or that notion of winners and losers changes, right, if everyone wins.

Samuel 

Right, right, right. And I think, you know, what the philosophy we have with the definition of purpose in business in the world today is that you can have a positive impact on humanity and nature while being profitable simultaneously. So I absolutely buy into profit. It’s not purpose or profit. They’re not what exclusively exclusive is purpose and profit. So it could be ESG, it could be diversity, equity and inclusion. could be social justice or employee well-being or accessibility or anti-racism.

Bennie 

Yeah, okay. Right, right.

Samuel 

Or ethical AI or financial inclusion or women’s rights. You can do all those things and be profitable at the same time. These things help you grow and drive your business. And I think the premise of the question you asked is, okay, so what do you mean by purposeful growth or how is profit part of it? Well, so I’ll give you an example, Costco through equitable employment, they have

Great inclusive retail practices where they have a 93 % employee retention rate, which is great for, and they pay, I think, over $31 an hour, so they pay above industry average. Their employees are happy, great employees give great service and great quality and reduce attrition, but that means their membership renewal rate of 90 % generates them $5 billion a year. So that’s it.

Bringing back customers to buy in the store. So this idea of diversity and purpose and meaning and great place to work and great products is a virtuous circle because it’s helping them drive, I think now 25 weeks of foot traffic growth, consecutive weeks of growth. So this is about business or.

I think JP Morgan chased Jamie Diamond, who I don’t always agree with, but I don’t know if he really cares about what I think. hH, he, know, last year they opened up a hundred branches. So their commitment to purposeful growth is through financial inclusion and place based investment because they open up a hundred branches in low income areas and expanding that to, and he said, this is not do gooding. This is we’ve measured like the customers, the transactions and the traffic. This is making us more money opening up.

Bennie 

Yeah. Right.

Samuel 

These branches because of the deposits investments. This is a model that works. So that investment is about profit and positive impact. So it’s not the these are mutually inclusive. And I think the more we can tell stories of that happening, the more we can show proof in business, because ultimately, I love foundations, I love philanthropy. But the main system we’re in is this commercial business. That’s like, you know, how economies work. I for me, the purpose is about changing the way we do commerce and there are ways to do that and that the realization of making money and being, you know, prosperity, I think is one of the points that you make. So how do we help all of the system win from your customers, but start with your employees, then your communities, your customers, your users, your buyers, and then shareholders. And if all three can win, then we have a system that works for everyone. And brands or companies like Costco, think, are good examples of how to do that well.

Bennie

So when we think about that system that you described, you talked about engaging with your employees, which are often seen as your first customer, right? If your employees are engaged with you, you go in. But let’s move actually to our customer space. There’s been a lot of talk about, customers really committed to brand’s purpose? Is this a trend or is this a reflection of the new reality?

Samuel 

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Well, I’ll keep stakeholders for what we do at Purpose Hive as a company. Talk to CEOs, CMOs, heads of com. And what the data says is, the eco consumer, should we just frame it more broadly as the eco more sustainable consumer? That’s a $450 billion global opportunity. And there’s some data from Wharton that says Purpose, there’s 11 % sales lift from purpose aligned companies. And then the latest Edelman study shows that 64 % of

Global consumers make choice, brand choices based on their values. And then you see that 53% of Gen Z and millennials want to work for purpose driven companies. And so it’s the data is suggesting this is important. I think I’ll come back to your question, but then I’m thinking, well, why is he talking about Gen Z? The interesting thing is that by 2030, so from when we’re recording four or five years from now, they’re going to be the largest consumer and talent force.

Bennie 

Mm-hmm, right.

Samuel 

That’s two billion people with 12 by 2030 ish. think Nielsen IQ say that’s $12 trillion in spending power. And so we know that cohort that the oldest Gen Z right now is 28. So that cohort care about purpose and meaning and values and more so. So if they’re that your employees and they’re your consumers, you better appeal to them. You better market to them. You better develop services and offerings for them.

And here’s the juicier part. By 2048, there’s some data that shows there’s going to be a $15 trillion wealth transfer to Gen Z. Not only are they the employees and the workers, they’re going to have all the money. And so if you’re not appealing to them now, when they get the inheritance, they’re not buying you now. They’re definitely double not buying you when they have all the money in the future. So if you’re a raging capitalist and you know that this is

Bennie 

Right, right.

Samuel 

Your current employee base, your current customer base and your future wealth base, you have to do it. It sounds horrible when I say it in a British accent, but I love the expression, the math ain’t math in, right? I can’t do it America to say math ain’t math. I love saying that because the math, you’re avoiding them or not appealing to them or not really understanding, reflecting them in how you develop your company policies, how you develop your brands, how you develop your offerings, how you communicate, you know,

being more transparent and authentic in what you do and how you do it, how you make things, where they come from, how you treat your suppliers, how you treat the planet, how you treat your communities. If you don’t do that better, if you’re not on that journey to improvement, you’re gonna lose out in terms of sales and revenue. This is not just about doing good as Jamie Dimon has. This is about making more money.

Bennie

So I’m going to, keeping with that theme of math and looking at this calculus, how do we end up with Smart Purposiful? How do we go from P and G and Granger and a truly global experience in marketing to having this moment in which you co-find Purposeive?

Samuel 

Yeah, for me, was like serendipity meets preparation. I didn’t know I was ready for this moment. this challenge or this adage we’ve often heard is I wanted to be the change I wanted to see. So the ideas that I had and my business partner and co-founder, co-CEO, Tusef Merza, we just had a common philosophy. I’d come more from the brand and the business background. She’s more from the agency and research side.

Bennie 

Right.

Samuel 

We kind of combine forces and realize that these principles and ideas we had were actually practical and real and true. And so our opportunity is to not only tell the stories, but to support our stakeholders, the CEOs, CMOs, comms leaders with solutions that work. You know, I’ve worked on brands and business. And when I was in a Girocell brand, for example, back in the day, I was just focused on just selling.

and just driving sales and driving growth. And what I realized working on other, on other parts of the business, and then my sort of living in Germany and new experiences and learning more about society and the impact is that, wow, these aren’t, these are opportunities. They’re, these are giving you better ways to solve the problems and recognizing that marketers are often the business leaders, the brand leaders, the drivers of of organizations that they get to decide what we make, what we eat, what we wear, what we see and how we see it. And so they have a huge impact on the world and could we and how could we be part of making that better and improving it. So it became a personal mission, this marketing reform and bringing that to life and actually transforming the commercial system.

And the companies we work with are on that journey or curious about the journey and they’re reaping the benefits of actually making it happen on their businesses, their brands, their employees, their stakeholders.

Bennie

So when we think about it, we often are having these conversations and our examples tend to be the big brands that are writ large, right? That’s where we kind of always go for the examples. In your role though, what advice would you have for the middle-sized brands, right? The brands who don’t have the P &G budgets, but wanna have an outpaced impact in the world that they do. What advice would you have for them about pursuing purpose?

Samuel 

Well, for me, it’s it’s that’s a really great question. And I love that because that’s actually a lot of the stakeholders we work with. There’s one company that comes to mind that we recently work with. There’s a restaurant chain called Lobotanist and they are in the New York area. They’ve got some in Belgium, a couple of establishments in Belgium and they’re a plant based organic restaurant. And I remember walking into the first time and I thought, what is that smell? This thing smells so amazing. And so they have their various dishes and I had this bowl and the meal I had was this Saag bowl, is like an Indian or South Asian influenced meal. And I finished my meal, it was delicious. And at the end of it, didn’t think, where’s the chicken or where’s the meat or anything? I thought, this is so delicious. And then they had this tomato soup and I said, okay, what’s in this soup? What do you put in it? They said, tomatoes, water, water and some spice. I said, no, what else? And they said, spices? I said, no, what else? How could this taste so delicious? They’re like, what are you doing? And so it was, and that’s a mid-size organization. And I say that the love and care and attention they put into the proposition allows them to deliver something to the world. And my mission, our job is to help bring that story to life because when you’re walking down the street, you might think of a brand like McDonald’s.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Samuel 

But for the price of a McDonald’s, can have a healthy, nutritious meal that you feel. I feel better about myself, but I also feel satiated. I don’t miss the meat because it’s delicious. And for me, the standard of excellence of food is deliciousness. You have delicious food. I’ll be there. you don’t, if your food isn’t delicious, I won’t be there. So I’m like, I am a carnivore. I meat. I’m not a vegan, but I love the food in this place because it is amazing. And so I say to the midsize brands is if you focus on understanding your audience, understand the carnivore.

Bennie 

Right, right.

Samuel 

You know, a meat eater like me, give me delicious food and I will eat it. Then I will question as to why it’s so delicious and it’s only vegetables and it’s delicious. Damn it. I’m going to eat more of this delicious food. So if the standard of excellence is delicious. So a lot of the brands and partners we work with, it’s really about finding that essence of their brand and really making sure they understand their consumer, they understand and respect their consumer, their customer, their stakeholder and their communities. Because I think that’s where a lot of brands go wrong. And I actually, a lot of the midsize brands, they’ve done that work. They really have a problem that they’ve really honed and they have an audience they truly understand and they’re trying to scale it or trying to amplify. And we love that challenge because for a lot of them, the DNA of their brand or business or philosophy is purposeful to a large degree because they haven’t come at it from a con…conventional way. But I would say for a lot of legacy brands, a lot of the larger brands we work with, they often just need to go and refine their roots. They need to go and refine the origin story, because there are some people out in the profession. I’m a bit of a monologue right now. But there are some people who say purpose is pointless, it gets in the way of good marketing. But then you think of the soap brands, the P &G, Unilever, there’s a brand called Lifeboy.

These were founded because people were dying of disease. So soap companies, Cascade Soap, because people were dying of disease, soap, you wash your hands and increases hygiene and people don’t die. So yes, they solved a societal problem and yes, they made money. So what if the founding of most businesses, most organizations was grounded in purpose and we’ve forgotten about it? We’re trying to add it back or figure out where it can belong. If we…flip it and say, well, if it’s always there, we can help you find it. There’s got to be a better way. It’s got to be built in, not bolted on, but you shouldn’t just say, no, it’s not for me. If you’re curious and open, there often is a pathway towards it.

Bennie 

But I love that as we transition from the smaller brands to the established brands, but new leaders in those spaces. I love that kind of conversation of making sure you’re open and curious to find that next level, kind of digging into the next level. I mean, it’s one of the challenges that you can have a brand that’s been successful. Hard stop. They’ve been successful for a time period, but just because you’ve been successful the last 20 years doesn’t mean you’re going to be successful the next.

Samuel 

Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Right, right. And I think that’s always the challenge because the status quo is, well, why change it if it’s working? The reason to consider and the reason to investigate is some of the data that I shared upfront is because your audience is changing. The culture is shifting. The people who used to sell to…You know, think there’s some others at H Harris poll that 20 % of us consumers say they’ve stopped buying from brands that backtracked on DEI. So maybe the people in charge don’t see the world that way, but the people who they’re selling to do. So what are you going to do when you feel or think differently to your consumer, your customer? don’t like the word consumer. want to, but that person that you’re selling to or the communities that they’re a part of.

How do you reconcile that with your brand and business? And it would behoove you to look at the data, the quant data, but personalize it and humanize it. And that’s a lot of what we do at Purposeive. It’s about Stephen or Mohammed or Jennifer or Sadia or Janelle or David or, you know, hey, all these different people, what did they care about? What are their needs? What are their values? And how do you delight them and understand them and recognize that by and large there’s a market opportunity and there’s growth opportunity coming from really delighting them. I’m black of African heritage, Ghanaian heritage from the UK, I’m black British. When I came to the US, Thanksgiving, during that time, my,

Bennie 

Mm-hmm.Right.

Samuel 

Family communities I was with were predominantly black or African American. And they during Thanksgiving would have sweet potato pie and not pumpkin pie. So in America. And I remember a few years ago when, was it Walmart had Patti LaBelle sweet potato pie. my goodness. The world went crazy because they, like, where is this? There were stampede and all sorts of chaos trying to get these darn sweet potato pies. And for the majority white audience, they’re like, what’s going on? What is this sweet potato pie? What is, what’s going on? But the, the, the dentists behind that was a black buyer at Walmart who brought something from their community to the store and it sold like gangbusters. So what if the, be more inclusive and considering more people is actually a net positive in terms of incremental to your business, incremental to your organization, you know, Microsoft’s

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Samuel 

I’m going to segue a bit, I, so I just, that was a retail example, but I love Microsoft’s commitment to purpose of growth because they have a really good inclusive hiring practice through their neurodiverse centered innovation. So they really create pathways for newer people with ADHD or dyslexia or autism to get into their organization. And the data shows that actually for the roles that they’re hiring for the neurodiverse community actually have a strong predisposition. So they’re really good. They’re actually super talented. So when you think about the best talent, Microsoft don’t think Yale and Harvard and all the top schools. They think who’s going to be best at this job. it’s actually the neurodiverse community. We’re going to give them pathways and support and to help them succeed and thrive in our organization. And 80 % of Gen Z prefer to apply to companies that support neurodivergent employees with like one in seven people.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Samuel 

You know, identifying as new or divergent. So this is about getting the best talent. This is not about doing good or charity. This is about getting the best talent, getting the best talent, which helps you be more successful and build better products and make more money. So it was doing both at the same time. So it’s not a charity, what Microsoft’s doing. It’s a business imperative to help grow through hiring. often it’s how to think of, how to look at the situation, because if you had best talent, top talent and had universities and top schools by prestige, as the criteria, that’s actually not the best, the definition of best talent that’s going to help you win with the customer audience of today. And that’s what, what we, I love through purpose. It’s about profit and pricing opportunities and business opportunities. If you, if you see the whole market and versus perhaps the traditional view of the marketplace.

Bennie 

Right. And I think it’s really powerful because in that conversation, you strip away the traditional blinders, right? Because you have a statement that says best talent. And in theory, as we said, best talent means just that, best talent. But for so long, best talent has been code for best talent of people I identify who meet this view of what I think the job leader should have, right? Where the school background, status or connection to the marketplace. then freeing yourself up from the best talent and the best ideas can come from the unexpected places. Right? Allows you to check that bias at the door.

Samuel 

Right. Absolutely. underestimated or underserved audiences are a huge opportunity. But also, I think how you define the market is as an opportunity. There’s some data from NYU Stern, New York University, and they’ve been working with Sukarno, which used to be, think, it IRI? They’ve been working on for over 12 years, and they have the Sustainable Market Share Index, which measures. t’s been going for over 12 years, 250,000 products, they measure categories like skincare and soup and floor cleaners and paper towels, chocolate, dish soap, and they’ve been measuring sustainably marketed products versus conventional products. And the sustainably marketed products are growing 2.3 times faster than the conventional products over the past five years. So the share in the US in 2013 has gone from 1 % to 24% in last year in 2024.

The market is saying that these are growing, but the pricing premium that some of these products have is over 100%. So now you’ve got the fear of tariffs and pricing and costs and disruption in the marketplace. What if you’re sustainably more purposeful? Cause I’ve given you all the data that that’s what people want and it’s growing faster. Now I’m giving you some data saying there’s pricing and there’s demand and there’s category size in that area.

Bennie

Hmm. Right. Right.

Samuel 

One example I’ve just seen, I think is genius. So I talked about CPG categories, paper towels, but in time of recording, like a month ago in the June of 2025, Peloton just launched a Peloton repowered platform. And what that is, is a secondhand products. Basically you can sell your Peloton for, and the seller keeps 70 % and Peloton get a cut of 30%. So now they get to sell the second ad byte, which gives more affordable entry points, a bit more accessible. They’re facilitating resale amongst the community in a trusted environment and they get a 30% cut of revenue that they weren’t getting before. And technically, yes, they are part of the circular economy. So that comes, but it’s like, okay, we need to grow.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Samuel 

We need to find incremental sources of revenue. we can sell our second hand. We can help do that with our customers who already buy, instead of just selling to them new stuff, we can try and, we can help them sell their old stuff and then potentially sell them the new stuff. We solve a problem that they have. We get a cut of that money. And guess what the tariff is on a secondhand bike? Zero, because it’s not a new thing. So now, wait a minute, we’ve got something that’s cheaper, available, accessible, and has a positive impact.

If you said that to the CFO, they said, why are you still talking about it? Get on with it. Why won’t you do it? Because now you’re to be in trouble for not having been doing this from the start versus it’s just a that’s and that’s called secondhand bikes. Secondhand cars have been around forever. So what if you make stuff that is durable? If you get involved in this thing, which is perhaps confusing as a circular economy, just call it secondhand. What if that is the solution to your tariff problem that you’re having right now? Because you can make more money and

Bennie 

Get it right.

Samuel 

Also have products that are available and accessible right now.

Bennie 

Yeah, it’s so powerful. I think of another brand that has that play as a part of community. You think about our friends at Harley, right? There’s something powerful about the community sharing and reselling the bikes within the community. So you can be a consumer of a brand new Harley, but there’s a sweet spot in your house for that vintage Harley that’s available.

Samuel 

Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Right. Absolutely. So you use the word community. And I think those are, I love that word in marketing and branding because it’s a, it focuses a bit more about the people. talked about people earlier. It’s a bit more humanizing. It’s a bit more real. And then you can think about, you know, as I say, JP, JP Morgan financial institution, they thought about community and how to support them, but also make more money. Microsoft thought about community in terms of more people being employed. There’s, in the New York area. And I think in France, there is, a great coffee shop called Cafe Joyo, and they essentially employ people with disabilities, with mental disabilities. because 80 % of that community are unemployed. And so what they found a way is to create a platform and an opportunity for employment.

And for me, I love going to that coffee shop because coffee, I love coffee, but I feel that I’m supporting something that’s better and having a positive impact. And it’s supporting a community of people who are underemployed. And guess what? I get delicious coffee in that place. So this is not a compromise or a trade down or something worse. So sometimes people think, oh no, it’s charity. Oh, what are we going to do with these? But what? No, just treat them like human beings, support them in employment opportunities and make money from a viable business idea. So purpose and profit for me always go together and I’m a realist. So that’s the system that we operate in. And there’s so many more stories I could tell of examples and proof points.

Bennie 

So I love to tackle things head on. So we’re at the part of the podcast where I’m gonna drop the F-bomb for you. And by F-bomb, we’re gonna talk about fear. What advice do you have for marketers who have a fear of doing this work and facing a backlash in the market or facing, you know, are they greenwashing or kind of inauthentic in the brand space in there?

Samuel 

Right. Right.

Bennie 

Get some advice for marketers who they hear the data, they know their brand opportunity, but they’re held up in this moment by fear.

Samuel 

Yeah. I would say that’s, you have to meet people where they are. I don’t know which movie Will Smith was in when he said, is false evidence appearing real. That’s a phrase I always have. So what evidence and data do your audience communities and stakeholders have? What’s their lived experiences and what are their values? So if you can really get to people and their stories and what they care about, what they need.

That humanization, I think, shows you opportunity of what’s possible. So that’s one thing I would say. I would say truly immersed in the data, which is qual and quant. It’s not only the numbers, it’s actually what are stories of real people. Then I would say, at what your peers are doing. yes, Tide is a huge laundry detergent brand. They have this turn to cold campaign. And in that campaign, they communicate, save up to $150 a year by washing in cold, which…like, so the first thing they need with is saving me money. Thank you very much. Wow. I wash them cold. I save, I save money. And that’s gone from about 48 % of people washing in cold in 2020 to 57 % 2023 data. Um, and so they’re, they’re shifting people’s behavior, but the starts with saving me money. Uh, I’m shifting behavior. Then they’ve saved like a billion kilos of CO2 and this campaign’s got billions of earned impressions.

Bennie 

Right. Right. Right.

Samuel 

And it’s having a positive impact. And so what are your competitors doing? What are they claiming? Because I see the claim that P &G communicate a billion kilos of CO2 saved. No legal, but that’s in their shareholder reports. That’s in what the CEO says. That’s what’s in the public affairs. So this is what’s in your report to the marketplace. So if you can say one billion kilos of something saved, I’m thinking, that’s the greatest claim ever. And it came from your sustainability people, by the way.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Samuel 

So if it’s in public documents to that extent, trust me, it’s been vetted and verified. So what are your competitors doing? And then I would say, look at what your retailers have demanded. Walmart have their Project Gigaton, Tesco in the UK, Amazon Climate Pledge Friendly, Mercado Libre in South America, Carrefour. There’s a retailer in…the Netherlands called Albert Hein. And as of I think January, 2025, they’re requiring all brands, all vendors. If you’re a vendor of theirs to talk, to be a vendor, you have to share your scope three data with them. And scope three is the emissions that come from the product in use. And the reason they’re, they’re focused on this is because they’re trying to get reduced costs. They’re trying to save. So they’re trying to fill pallets. They’re trying to get electric vehicles in their distribution, which saves money. So this push is coming from what your audiences, consumers, customers, people are saying it’s coming from what your competitors are doing and what the market needs. And it’s coming from the retailers, what they’re demanding. So if you’re not doing it, you’re probably behind. And I’ve just given you all the data about the categories are going. It’s got pricing power and premium power. So all the signals are saying that this is an opportunity. So for the CMOs and CEOs, we, we work with, we really focus on the storytelling that helps marketers understand it and do it because I’ve just used the phrase scope three, but I didn’t lead with that. used that halfway through the show. So it’s us. It’s about really making this about people, human beings. I talked about Peloton and the secondhand bike that’s circular economy. there lead with the marketing or the human story. And that’s the problem. And often the space of purpose and this better for you is and there are, there’s so many tools and levers in that space to help you do be a better marketer, be a better business leader, and ultimately drive more revenue and profit from these, these, these areas and these levers. So for me, I keep leading, it’s about the business and this is very much a business driven, philosophy.

Bennie 

Right. One of the things I love with our conversations is the evidence that you provide doesn’t stop at any one border. Talk a bit about the fact that purpose is global, brands are global, and our work is global as an inspiration for our marketers who listening now, that so much great work happening everywhere.

Samuel

Yeah, I think as a, I’m a global citizen. my, I’m a Brit and I’m Ghanaian heritage and I live in the U S and I’ve just come back from, a P and G conference, procter and gamble in, in Berlin. And I was in Cannes in France. And when you’re having conversations with people from Romania and South America and Africa, the, there are commonalities in our humanity in what we aspire to, to what we desire, what we believe in. And this global nature of caring about community is it’s a thing that all humans have. And so how might we learn from each other? How might we inspire each other? know, there’s a brand called Pinotex and Pinotex is essentially, it is a non-biodegradable product, but Pinotex comes from the leaves of pineapples.

And basically the farmers used to grow the pineapple. They’re spending all this time and money on growing, but they’re not getting all the money because you cut off the leaves, which is a huge part of the pineapple. And that’s kind of goes into landfill. So what pinnatex is, is a vegan leather. Essentially it turns those leaves into a fiber. That fiber becomes a product. So now the farmer gets paid for all of their, their crop. They, get a bit, they get more money. So this is like the prosperity idea. So the farmer gets more money for their pineapple that they grow.

The waste doesn’t go into the ground. actually gets turned into something that then is commercialized as an innovation, as a product that can go to market. But guess what? People who are vegan, vegetarian, who care about animal cruelty, they don’t buy leather. They don’t buy cow’s leather. So now you’re actually meeting a need for people who won’t buy the stuff you make conventionally. So this is a waste. Becomes value, the value becomes an innovation, the innovation becomes a product that ultimately someone will buy because they didn’t have a product in the marketplace. And that’s PINATEX, P-I-N-A-T-E-X, it’s been around for about, I think, 10 years. So that’s why, and that’s basically coming to looking out for farmers in the Philippines and these nations which grow these crops and trying to help them, but not just doing it through charity, but…making this part of their business, helping their businesses be more prosperous, helping them make more money and be better off, but then feed the whole system with something that is possible. there are so many great solutions from the globe that you can learn from, be inspired by and practice on your brand or implement in your business that I see so much opportunity and growth. I’m inspired, I’m excited, as you can tell, I’m jazzed about this because

But it’s a business person. So this is, I respect people in foundations and charities and nonprofits. They’re part of the system. They keep us honest. know, the green pieces as well. They’re challenging the standards and clean creatives who are challenging fossil fuel companies. So it’s about progress over perfection. And that’s one of the messages I want to leave. I think for some brands and people, you use the word fear. I think the fear comes from a place of what I can’t do or what if I do something wrong?

And I feel that it’s progress over perfection. No one’s perfect. If you put anything in plastic, which most products are, you’re part of the petrochemical industry. So you are trying to reduce your plastic. I mentioned Costco before. One of the data points I love from them is that they move their peanuts from plastic cartons into plastic bags and that saved them four million pounds of plastic and $8 million in cost. So positive impact, we use less plastic. And guess what? We just put eight million to the bottom line. There you go. Thank you very much. This is still about making money. So you can make these changes. Are you fearful about saving $8 million in cost? Is your CFO scared about saving $8 million? I don’t think so. And so…

Bennie 

Right, right, right.

Samuel 

If you think about your business, these opportunities are there. Start there. Start with your supply chain and some of the initiatives you can do there before you think about some big mega claim that you’re making the tied to one billion. Start with what’s possible and the opportunities are bountiful.

Bennie 

I think that this a wonderful way to end this first part of our conversation, my friend, because I’m going to invite you back again so we can have more examples and spaces. But on this one, we are spending time in the land of the P words as we’ve gone into. So we talk about the possibility. We talk about progress over perfection. The five P’s of purpose hive, as we mentioned, this purpose, people, progress, planet.

Samuel 

Absolutely.

Bennie 

and overall in our conversation, prosperity. Thank you. Thank you for being a part of this conversation. And thank you all for listening as we explore in a deeper way, what does purposeful, profitable growth look like? How is marketing a part of it? And how do we get a chance to spend time with the one and only reformed marketer, marketing reformer? Samuel, thank you for being a part of this podcast and all of your work and insight.

Samuel 

Love it.

Bennie 

We’ll continue this conversation. invite you all as you listen to check out the work of Purpose Hive and to follow the work we do on encouraging sustainable marketing at the AMA. Thank you once again.

Samuel 

Thanks so much for having me, Bennie. It’s been a pleasure.