Transcript

Bennie F. Johnson

Hello, and thank you for joining us for this episode of AMA’s Marketing And. I’m your host, Bennie F. Johnson, AMA’s CEO. In our episodes, we explore life through the lens of marketing, delving into conversations with individuals that flourish at this intersection of marketing and the unexpected. We’ll introduce you to visionaries whose stories you might not yet have heard of, but are exactly the ones you need to know. Through our thought -provoking conversations, we will unravel the challenges, triumphs, and pivotal moments that have been shaped in their lives and careers by marketing. Today, my guest is Elav Horowitz. Elav has mastered the art of translating really complex innovations from AR to AI, from social media to immersive experiences, into strategic growth opportunities for some of the most iconic brands. Her background weaves together this kind of global tapestry stretching from the world’s innovation centers to the boardrooms of industry leaders, to small startups and offices, and here on our very own podcast. She has leveraged digital disruption into competitive advantage with a significant focus on today’s topic of generative AI through a blend of both creativity and strategic insight.

Elav guides brands to a future ready state, envisioning and implementing digital transformations that lead markets and resonate with consumers. She’s a proven innovation leader, a founding member of chief, part of the Meta Creative Council, an advisor to numerous startups, writer, public speaker. Her influence reaches deeply into diverse arenas, not only impacting businesses, but also shaping the thought leadership and innovation practices across various sectors. As you can see, we’re really honored and delighted to welcome Evolve to our podcast today. Thank you for joining us.

Elav Horowitz 

Thank you. Thank you for this amazing intro. I think I’m going to use it.

Bennie 

Oh my goodness. I am just so honored and impressed to be able to have our conversation today. To really think about the heart of innovation. And I promised you before that we’re going to talk AI, but that’s not going to be our first question, right? So our first question is, I want to know more about you and your journey. So what led you to this role of, you know, we talk really big about big innovation and changing the world.

Elav 

Thanks. Great.

Bennie

But what led you down this path? How did you start?

Elav 

So I always love starting by saying that as a kid, I always wanted to work in advertising. I hope there are still some kids out there that still want to work in advertising. I don’t know why, but it was definitely my dream. Then I’m originally from Israel, and in Israel, obviously, everyone has to go to the army. And…

Bennie 

Uh -huh.

Elav 

I was very lucky in a way that like they put me in the computers and intelligence unit, even though I didn’t want to deal with technology. It wasn’t my passion, but like somehow they found out something that I didn’t know at the time. This is where I discovered my passion for technology. After two years in the army, I went to college. I wanted to go and learn something related to marketing or advertising. Someone told me there was.

Bennie

Right.

Elav 

I think it was like Institute of Technology. Someone told me about this new degree that’s all about instructional design. And it’s kind of like the perfect combination of technology and design and marketing and advertising and psychology. They said, like, okay, I’m going to try it out. I went to school. Then in between, I started like even working for some tech companies. But again, my dream was advertising. So in the last year, we had a course on advertising with a small digital agency that supported us. And they said, that’s my chance. I’m going to do it now. I created a whole presentation that we had to present. And then at the end, the CEO came and said, I would love for you to come and work for us. And I said, yes. And he said, for free. I don’t know.

Bennie 

Oh wow. Hahaha!

Elav 

Like, well, you know, back at the time I was like, okay. So, I started doing that. And I worked for free for a few months. And then I said, like, oh, so, but like, listen, I need to pay the rent. So  I need to get paid. But it was a great school because it was one of the first small digital agencies. And it was like the early days of.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

Digital media and social media. So we did a lot of crazy campaigns that created a lot of noise. And then I moved to another small digital agency to run the social media department. And then a recruiter that knew me said oh, they’re looking for someone like a digital experts to come to McCann interview. And he said, I don’t know. And like we can tell it’s a really big office, like one of the most successful ones.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

I said, like, it feels too big. I don’t think I will be able to do it. I prefer like small like boutique agencies and just like, just go and meet with them and see what you feel. And I met the CFO and the COO was like an amazing woman. Obviously she convinced me to come and I said, yes. And, and I joined McCann. And it was amazing because it was to work with.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

Top -notch creators, famous brands, and also to lead digital transformation from scratch. And obviously, Israel is an amazing innovation hub with so many startups. So after four years, I said, oh, we’re not taking advantage of what we have around us in terms of startups. So I created this program called TechDate to match between brands and startups. And again, it was now nine, 10 years ago, it was quite innovative at the time because the brands, you know, marketing mainly like they did partner with small emerging startups. We started doing that. And then we did to a global delegation from Nestle and some other McKenna offices around the world, started hearing about it. And I was like, Oh, maybe I should do it globally in some capacity.

Bennie

Okay. Oh nice, right.

Elav 

And then I was offered the job here in New York to move to New York to be part of McCann, world group globally and to start our innovation department innovation offering, which was also like my dream all the time to be in New York. So I’m kind of one of the lucky ones that I’m able to say like, Oh, I actually fulfilled my dream. So yeah.

Bennie

Right? This is an incredible story, but I’m for full clarity. I just want to make sure. So now you get paid though, right? Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Cause you know, I, I’m here for you. I wanted to make sure that that was my concern. I was like, Oh, no, it’s incredible to kind of hear that space in there. You know, what I, a point that I saw that was interesting in your background is how you’ve been able to toggle between.

Elav 

Okay. Yes, yes, yes, thankfully. Yes, yes, you know, after all, after all, it’s New York City, you know. Exactly. Yeah.

Bennie 

startup and big enterprise. I’m gonna ask this question as a two part. What are some of the things that you wish that more startups understood about larger organizations and vice versa? What do you think that there are some lessons that the big brands can take from some of the startup energy?

Elav 

Yeah, so it’s a great question. I think I will start with why I love working with startups that much. I think for me, it’s like all the time, the signals, like towards the future. And every time there was a new emerging technology, I always go and like try to find the most  relevant an innovative startup, because then I would understand like, okay, how the future might look like, and which solutions we actually need to think about. So.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

I would love that like big corporations would have this agility and can do it spirit and that, you know, we’re here for each other and this togetherness and we have one mission and one goal that like the whole company is going towards, which is amazing. Like this energy every time you made a startup, you’re getting impacted by this like energy and that’s like the beauty of it.

Um, and then I would love for startups to understand. It’s like they need, they need patients, to actually work with like big corporations. And then I think like sometimes, not sometimes, like most of the times, and like, that’s like what I do with most of the startups I work with is then they need to tailor their story accordingly.

Bennie 

Mm -hmm.

Elav 

To the company they’re meeting with. So it’s like, for me, it’s not only sharing the solution in the case studies. It’s already kind of saying, or after like some research, here’s what we think that we can actually do for you. And kind of a close the gap because then I think it would be easier for the company to say yes versus trying to figure out by themselves, like what should be the first pilot. But I think it’s mainly, you know, just like translation.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

Between like two different entities in a way.

Bennie 

I love the advice that you’ve given on both sides of that, but something you said at the beginning was really interesting, that when you find innovation or you see something new technology in there, you go directly to the startup source. Now, talk a little bit more about that. How does that help shape your understanding of the innovation or the new? And I’m going to say innovation because sometimes innovation is not technology, right? To speak broader in that, how does that help shape your understanding of how to wield this new innovation?

Elav 

So it’s again, because innovation for me, it’s to show that like new things are possible, right? Or new solutions. And I always say in a way we don’t need to reinvent the wheel because like someone has probably, it’s been already created this wheel or like has been thinking about it. So we just need to find a solution that it’s relevant and adopted. So a lot of the times is like, for example, and I also call it the chicken, the egg or the omelet. So, you know, from since, well, the creative industry. So sometimes the creatives will have an idea and then we need to find the right technology. But sometimes it’s the chicken.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Elav 

And then like the egg is like, no, you see an amazing technology out there and like then the creatives or the business, the brand team would have an idea of what they can do with it. And sometimes just like a combination of both of them or just an insight or someone read something that then like you’re like, okay, that there was like something here now let’s try to find the right idea or the right technology as part of it. So it’s like a mix. So for me, it’s like, it’s to show the possibilities. It’s.

Bennie 

Mm -hmm. Okay.

Elav 

Also to show because I feel like there was like a famous meme or cartoon sometimes that a lot of companies or other people, they want to be like the first ones doing something. But then they ask like, can you show me someone else who did it? So you don’t, you want to be the first one, but like you also want to make sure that you place your back in the right way. So for me to show like startup solution and like you mainly the ones that they already have like case studies, it’s kind of like giving.

Bennie 

Right. Right. Right.

Elav

An insurance certificate to a big company to say like, this is doable. This is possible. Here’s the potential ROI that you can have out of it. And now let’s try it and like, let’s experiment with it. And then it’s also again, because they mentioned this like signal. So like with every new technology, we can have some predictions of like what those would bring. And then like you can find like relevant startups and to say here.

Bennie

Mm -hmm. Which I think is really powerful. When did you realize that you had a gift in helping to translate these complex? You know, because you talked about kind of not even leaning into the technology space and then finding that that was a passion lane. But when did you realize that you could kind of make sense of these movements in a way that was impactful to organizations?

Elav 

Here’s the evidence of why we think that these predictions might happen. Well, thank you.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

I think for me, it’s mainly to understand something that sounds complex to people and then being able to translate it in a way that would make people excited about it or want to hear more or like…

Bennie

Mm -hmm.

Elav 

I will always try because again, of course, we’re in this industry for me, it’s all about like storytelling. So how do you tell a story about it that  would make someone feel that like he wants to be part of it. And I feel like sometimes and not sometimes like most of the time is that technology is very intimidating and scary and people don’t want to engage with it. So it’s, it’s.

Bennie 

right right right

Elav 

kind of like, okay, how can I tell this in a different way? And like, all the time, when I would see something, so be okay, this is what it means. Or like, this is like how people can think about how brands can think about it or like how we can sell it in a better way. And what inspires me is that like when I see something click for someone, or like the, you know, just like light in their eyes, like when they understand something that they haven’t understood before.

Bennie 

Right. Mm hmm. Right. Okay. All right. Right. Right.

Elav 

And I don’t know, it’s like for me, I always laugh that like, I suffer from constant FOMO. So for like, regarding the fact, I think this is why I also like I love New York and like why I live here. But it’s like every new technology or like every new trend, like I need to understand like what it is or like I need to try it out. That like, I would be able to satisfy my FOMO and this is why then I can kind of like share it with other people as well. So yeah.

Bennie 

Right, right. I love the curious spirit, right? Because it gets you in the space and air. But I think you broached the topic in a way that I think it’s nice for our pivot in the conversation. This notion of fear and nervousness. You know, I get asked constantly both.

Elav 

Yeah.

Bennie 

In public and private conversations about generative AIs impact on marketing. And it often comes from a space, these conversations and requests come from a space of fear. Talk to me a bit about how we as a marketing industry should kind of think through our processing of what generative AI means, can mean, and how we can use it for the good for our industry.

Elav 

Yeah. So my first slide, like in all of my presentation on generative AI, I showed this clip of the first film that was introduced by the Lumiere brothers in 1895. And I think everyone knows the story that like when it was introduced in the cinema, people were like so scared that like they jumped.

Bennie 

Yes. Right.

Elav 

Out of their chairs, like when they saw the train entering the station. So I asked people not to jump out of their chair during this presentation. And I say, and I accept it, like it’s every new technology and like new innovation, it’s like scary and it’s intimidating and it require like some changes. So it’s okay to feel like that. But then like my next slide is that like I show a graph.

Bennie

Mm -hmm.

Elav 

Of like showing how new innovations or always like brought new jobs and like new money and like new opportunities and new solutions. So, and like also of course, like help the economy. So, and this is kind of like what I show it’s you know, also going to be beneficial. And now the only decision like you need to make is like on which side you’re going to be is that, and I think like, you know, with mainly with like generative AI.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

It was like the same with like the metaverse people like, oh, it’s just the hype. It’s going to go away. And I think in 2023, there were like a lot of like people that were still like on the fence and like calling it a hype or a scam. And I think like now in 2024, people finally understand like, no, it’s here to stay. It will change some jobs and processes. But like at the same time, it would also create like new solutions and new business models that like we’ll need to think about. For me.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Elav

It’s an evolution that like, and like we need, and we need to evolve ourselves with this technology and we to upscale ourselves and like our teams to understand how to use this technology for our own benefit. And then I get excited about. I have like this table that like shows like our AI is going to affect everything. And the last bucket is it’s.

Bennie 

Right. Thank you.

Elav 

What are the new businesses and products and solutions and services that we can think of offering like, you know, as an agency for like our clients, but, of course, for like big companies and like marketers now to the consumers. Cause a lot of things that like we, we wanted to do in the past and like we couldn’t because it was like too expensive or too complex. Now we can actually do it. We generated AI and, and we still need to remember. And like, for me, this is like the most important point.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Elav 

It’s just a tool. It’s not it would by itself would create like solutions or ideas or would generate like content that you still need like the human input as part of it. And it would help of course like a lot of like it would it would amplify a lot of like processes and it will solve a lot of challenges, but like you still need like humans to be part of it.

Bennie 

Right. Right. And earlier this year, you wrote a piece about this kind of tension and space between human and machines.

Elav

Yeah, so it’s always, I feel like, you know, people were always afraid of robots, right? And it’s like in all of the movies and the doom and gloom and like, let’s be honest, like even some of the robots that like we’re seeing these days, like they look scary, they don’t. It doesn’t look like that nice and like you would not have it at home. So, and there is always, and like the media also claims to…

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

The negative headlines in a way is that like the AI is after us, like the robots will take over. And you know, like one day, like the whole world would explore because of robots. But unfortunately, people have used like technology and innovation for good purposes and bad purposes. This one will be no different.

Bennie

Right.

Elav 

I think what I hope is that with this one will be a little bit more aware of the issues because we’ve seen some of it with social media and digital. So now I feel like there’s more push towards being more ethical and diverse and fight for the right solutions. And I think companies should also fight for that, of course, with everything they’re creating. But again, it’s still all about, will be about.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Elav 

Human creativity and ingenuity and the World Economic Forum, like they published a report like saying that yes, like due to AI or because of AI, 93 % of job will be transformed or changed, not canceled, but like changed in some capacity. But the number one skill that like we all need to have is creative thinking. And the second one is analytical thinking. Reason being is that like now you can’t

Bennie

Right. Right. Right.

Elav 

Create so much content or so many solutions right now that the ones that would actually rise to the top or the ones that would shine are the creative ones, the ones that people understand how to create impact with those. So for me, this is why it’s so critical to still have creativity and human experience as part of it, because only then you know how to direct the machines and the AI.

Bennie 

Right. Right. It’s so true so so I’m going to ask you this question because you have such an interesting and dynamic global growth story. So where do you look for new ideas?

Elav 

Um, for me, it’s, uh, I always say the streets, again, I’m very lucky, of course, like to live in New York. And I feel like this is why like COVID was so hard for me. And of course, like to other people, but it’s this like constant inspiration that, um, I’ll see, I’ll see something like I didn’t think about or.

Bennie 

Uh -huh. Yes. Right,

Elav 

A new experience or a new store, like someone would say something, like someone would learn something. And, and then like something would click for me. I like for me, it’s also like the virtual streets, like a team’s chat. Uh, we have like now globally, we’ve created a lot of, uh, virtual groups of like talents from around the world that like, well, just like communicate like all the time and like share ideas and concepts. And like, you know, someone would post something.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Elav 

And then it will inspire another person. So for me, it’s this, it’s these little moments that you see something that somehow inspire you to think about it differently.

Bennie 

Well, I’ll ask this question for hyper focus. What excites you today? What are you most excited about?

Elav 

It’s gonna be a cliche, but I am really excited about AI and the possibilities. I think for me, you know, not speaking about like, and it is like related to like our world as well, but for me, the fact that like it democratizes creativity and I give accessibility to like, to people to create like the ideas or like their solutions in ways that they couldn’t have done like before.

Bennie 

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Elav 

The fact that you don’t need to know how to code anymore, it’s beyond, right? Because that was like a secret, not a secret, but like you’re, yeah, it was a barrier. Yeah. Yeah.

Bennie 

Right. But it was a barrier, right? It was a barrier to entry and defined what companies could have and what companies didn’t and who could be a part of that career space. Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right.

Elav 

Exactly. Yeah. And like, you know, like go to school and learn computer science. Most people would feel like it’s not for them, but like they might have like an amazing idea, like they always wanted to bring to life and now they can, and now they can. Um, so for me that it’s this like accessibility to education, uh, that you can learn everything you want now.

Bennie

Right, right, yeah. Yeah.

Elav 

Just like a question away and you can make everything you want. So for me it’s that and I know that it’s going to bring a lot of issues to society and it already brings but I do believe that it will solve some of our biggest challenges like climate change and like poverty. Again, if humans and companies would know how to use this technology in the right way but there are already so many amazing innovations and like…

Bennie

Right. Right.

Elav

For health as well. And it just, and I always say, this is just the beginning of what is coming.

Bennie 

Right. We’re at that stage to go back with the example you use with that first film. We’re at the stage in which it’s novel, it’s tech, it’s future forward. It has moments that shock us because it’s different than what we’ve experienced. But think about how much, if we take ourselves back to that first moving picture, to how much we’ve experienced over the last, what is it, 100 years of film? You know,

Elav 

Yeah. Exactly.

Bennie 

The impact that it has. So I’m going to ask a little more poignant question about what do you think about this new generation of technologies impact on marketing as a profession? What opportunities do you think it proposed for us?

Elav 

Kind of like going back to, you know, what you were telling me about when you went to like one of the universities or colleges and you should, you’re about to give us a talk and like most of the questions were about AI. What I say to like every young person I interact with is just like master those tools. 

Bennie 

Mm -hmm.

Elav 

Experiment with everything that there is out there, have your unique point of view on it, create new solutions or ideas. And now it’s the time that again, if you’re looking for a job, master that. And I think that’s what every big company or agencies are looking for, is people understand the business, but also understand what they can actually create with their soul.I think for marketing it’s mainly and, and also like an exercise that I do when, when I present some of the solutions, like I say, just like write down all of the tasks that like you would love for them to be automated. And like we all have that, right? It’s like sometimes like we hate to do and like, it just like takes a lot of, a lot of time.

Bennie

Right. Right.

Elav 

And, and like you, you feel that like, there must be a better solution instead of like you doing it. For me, this is AI. That’s like the first thing is like, okay, how can you move like all of this, like boring mundane tasks that like now can be done with like AI and then like how much time we would get like back to focus on like what’s important and connecting with people, like coming up with ideas or creating like new solutions as part of it. So for me, it’s that then the second thing is.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

What are some of the current challenges you might have like personally or professionally, and then understanding how Gen AI might solve that. And in order to achieve all of that, it’s everything’s like about like upskilling and playing with the tools. It’s, it’s not like you need to learn everything that like, it’s out there and like play with like every tool, but. You need to understand like how it can help you, what it can do. And then you understand like how you would function differently and like how you would structure your team differently and what are the new tasks that you can do thanks to that.

Bennie 

Which I think is really great. If you were then to give advice to executives now, because one of the conversations we always have is the tension that marketing leaders may have for some of their C -level peers, what advice would you give to executives on how to think about that intersection of technology, new technology and marketing? What advice would you give to that executive suite who are always in the conversations with the marketing leaders, right? But if you could offer one bit of,

Elav 

Yes, yes.

Bennie 

how to more effectively engage and leverage marketing. What advice would you give to our fellow friends in the C -suite?

Elav

Set aside time and some budget, not even big budgets for experimentation. That when you see something that you want to experiment with, it will not be the time or resources that would stop you from doing that. I’m a big believer, again, in training and up -skilling teams. So…to do more of that. And I think that would unlock the fear or the concerns that people might have of engaging these new solutions and technologies. Because when you understand what it is and you understand the opportunities and the threats of every new technology, then you know how to use it. Yeah, so for me, for me it’s that. It just have like a… And embrace an experimentation mindset. Speaking about what we can learn from startups, it’s that.

Bennie 

I love how you’re framing that. Yeah, I love how you’re framing that because it is true. Experimentation provides a solution to perfection, right? For executive suites and leaders who want this thing to work out perfectly, when you think about it, it’s experimentation that you get your breakthroughs, that you get your biggest impact, and freeing yourself up from that. And setting aside the space to have healthy dynamic experimentation, you know, the space in which marketing can thrive.

Elav 

Exactly. Yeah.

Bennie 

So what, you know, if you, if I ask you this question as you think about, you call yourself a brand innovator, which is really kind of wonderful and powerful in that space. When you think about what’s next for brands, I ask this question for you. What’s next for you? What’s top of mind for you in the future, my friend? What are you thinking about?

Elav 

Wow. For me, it’s…how we can help creativity thrive in this new era of AI, how can we find new voices and new talents that are embracing this technology and then make sure that they would be part of our industry. I think it’s also, it’s not like,

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

You know, everyone has been kind of saying that, and I feel like even though there’s a new article about like today, we know that like it’s going to disrupt like advertising and marketing, like business models. But I think, you know, it’s the time we need a little bit of disruption to come up with new business models and like new solutions. And like we think this like formula that we all feel that we have right now.

Bennie 

Right?

Elav 

Um, and I think better, better content, better ads, better solutions, uh, would come out of it, for people, for consumers and, and for companies themselves. And I think a lot of it would change and like, I don’t want to say that like, we’re not going to recognize advertising and marketing anymore, but it will probably be better and more relevant.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav

Personalized and more creative. So yeah, for me, it’s like this new balance. Oh, it’s all gonna, who are like the new players? How it’s all gonna play out? What will come out out of it? And then personally, I feel, you know, it’s like we’ve been through a couple of like tech revolutions by now. For me, it’s.

Bennie 

Yeah.

Elav 

How we’re making sure that like we, we are creating like a better technology for all right now. It’s how are we making sure that more women would be, would be part of this because there was already like an AI gender gap because of course like men are the one like developing the solutions. Women are not embracing it enough. Like men it’s probably going to hurt like women’s jobs.

Bennie 

Right.

Elav 

Versus like what’s considered to be like men’s job. And that’s for me, it’s like, wait, wait a minute, like we were through something like that, like already, like we’re still of course like part of it. So now how can we actually change that and make sure that women or under marginalized like voices would be one, would be like the ones, I don’t want.

Bennie 

Right. Right.

Elav

Not necessarily like dictating the new technology, but being part of the conversations, because if not, we’re just going to do the same mistakes all over again.

Bennie 

Right. And I think to your point, this is an active season for all of us to be a part in shaping what these newer technologies continue to become and evolve in. Right? If we opt out of it, then it happens to us versus being a part of crafting what becomes next.

Elav 

Exactly. Thanks. Yeah. And, and push the tech companies and like push the startups and like, I felt the difference and you know, open AI speaks about it publicly. They’re saying like, tell us how could we do better? Like what we should be doing and like put like guard rails in place. Like they’re asking for it. And I think like it’s, it’s different than, um, you know, what we used to see like in the past. So yes, to a point is like, this is definitely the time to push back on some of the solutions or try to think how to create something even better.

Bennie

So I’ll take you back to growing up. Did you ever imagine that this would be your job?

Elav 

No, no, no. And I feel like, again, I feel like very lucky that like, as I mentioned, like I want to work in advertising and I want to live in New York. So like, I definitely do that. But I’m, yes. Yes, yes. And I feel very lucky that I get to play and like work.

Bennie

Right. But what a way to do it, my friend. What a way to do it.

Elav

With people that want to experiment with new solutions. And I love the challenges. I love the challenges in between. I feel pointed, like people are afraid or they don’t know exactly how to embrace it. Like for me, it’s yes. I get excited by it. When it’s all clear, I’m like, okay, no, this is not that exciting.

Bennie 

Well, I love the fact that you’re excited about the complex intersections. And that’s what our conversations here are all about. That there are no easy solutions, but really dynamic questions and prompts for us to figure this out. And creating your, you’ve turned your entire career into an innovation lab, which I think is kind of fun to think about. So yes. Well, thank you. I cannot believe we’re at the end of our time already.

Elav

I love it. Thank you.

Bennie 

Could sit back and talk about innovation with you forever. And I’m sure we’ll do it again. I’m going to invite you back next year because I know in 12 months, so much will have changed. And we’ll need to see so much more that comes into it. But yeah, I think about, you know, innovation, as you said before, is an opportunity to experiment and play and think about the unexpected. And that’s really what, you know, we want to encourage in our careers in marketing.

Elav

I wouldn’t laugh at that. Who knows? Yes. Yes.

Bennie 

For those who are coming up and working. So, Elav, thank you for this thought-provoking conversation, your spirit and energy, and being open to experimenting and breaking things with us.

Elav

Thank you for having me and like maybe who knows maybe the next time like our AI avatars would be the ones talking so Exactly. Yes. Yes.

Bennie 

Maybe, and then we’ll let them do it and then we’ll just edit and correct as we go along. No, but the future is dynamic and we encourage you all to be a part of it. So thank you all for joining me and my guest, Elav, as we talk about innovation, technology and what’s next in AI marketing and beyond. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Marketing Anne. We encourage you to follow us both and follow the AMA. We’re here as a resource for you to help you navigate upskilling experimentation in the future of marketing. Thank you for joining us today.