In April 2025, Dov Hoffman was named Volunteer of the Year by the American Marketing Association.

Additionally, Dov’s title changed after this episode was recorded. He is now Vice President, B2B Marketing at Weber Shandwick.

Transcript

Bennie F. Johnson

Hello, and thank you for joining us for this special episode of Amma’s Marketing, and I’m your host, AMA CEO, Bennie F. Johnson. In our episodes, we explore life. Through a marketing lens, delving into the conversations with individuals that flourish at the intersection of marketing and the unexpected, we hope to introduce you to visionaries whose stories you might not [00:00:30] yet have heard of, where exactly the ones you need to know.

Through our thought provoking conversations will unravel the challenges, triumphs and pivotal moments that have been shaped by marketing. Today our guest is a really special guest and no stranger to our community here at  AMA. Our guest today is Dov Hoffman. By day, Dov serves as VP of Client Experience Digital for Weber Shandwick. (NOTE: Dov’s title changed after this episode was recorded. He is now Vice President, B2B Marketing at Weber Shandwick.)

His work has been with clients to provide strategies for their marketing efforts across a full spectrum of digital marketing channels. By fusing data, technology strategy, and creativity to deliver breathtaking and brave ideas that are meaningful impact to brands and organizations. But at the same time, he is one of our, the most committed and passionate volunteer leaders with our AMA community.

Serving currently with AMA Baltimore as the VP of sponsorship in the past, president of the Baltimore AMA chapter and in charge of programming. It’s through his professional volunteer experiences that Dove has been able to combine, uh, his work as a marketing and strategy leader, along with a community leader within marketing, um, between DC and Baltimore and the Mid-Atlantic region.

His work has taken him through impact all over the country. It’s interesting, when we looked at the bio, one of the things that Dov mentioned is that he strongly believes in the important lesson of President Abraham Lincoln. In the end, it’s not the years in your life that counts, it’s the life in your years. And he shows this belief by spending his time volunteering, traveling, engaging, and sharing his personal experiences to really improve the lives of others. With that Dov, welcome to the podcast, my friend. 

Dov Hoffman

Thanks Bennie. So happy to be here.

Bennie

You know, it’s an incredible honor to have you join us for this conversation. So we have conversations offline. And this is the opportunity for us to have one online where people get to come in and and think about it. But I wanna ask you a question that takes you back and it’s a question about aspiration and inspiration. When did you first realize that there was a place for you in marketing?

Dov

You know, that’s a great question, Bennie. And we’re gonna have to take a trip in the way back machine.

Bennie 

Yes, let’s do it. 

Dov

Cause I feel like this was when I  was growing up as a kid, almost. It really goes back to, and this story will illustrate my mindset of the role of marketing and the way that I look at marketing and others do as well, is marketing is a growth driver for your business and it can be a profit center if done right, and with that, you need to make sure that marketing completely aligns to business goals and objectives. And let’s go on that trip that I promised in the way back machine to when Dov was 13 years old. And I had just had my bar mitzvah and had some money that I saved up. And rather than buying some new toys or maybe investing it, I took a portion of it and I bought myself a lawnmower, which I guess you could say actually did make an investment right.

I then started cutting the lawn for my house and my neighbors, and before you knew it, I was doing landscaping services for my neighborhood. And then I realized, well, that’s only seasonal. What am I gonna do other times of the year? So I then started raking leaves in the fall and shoveling snow in the winter. And I sort of had this year round. Landscaping, snow removal, all things company as a teenager.

Bennie 

Right. 

Dov

It was at that point that I realized maybe not fully knowing it at the time of the role of marketing. And even though we’re in 2025 and we live in such a digital age, I personally feel no matter what the role of word of mouth and speaking with family and friends and peer to peer has so much weight and influence that can’t be replaced. And I really learned what marketing would do for my business at the time. 

And then I would say fast forward later into my college years based on what was rooted at that time. I knew I wanted to do something business related. And then eventually I ended up going into a marketing major and I can keep going down that path, but I’ll pause for a moment there before we take up the whole podcast topic just on this one question.

Bennie

No, we, we, it’s important and we’ll have fun with it. So we’re gonna talk a little bit about that college experience and a lot of your work is kind of between spaces and I think it’s a great way to think about it.

When I think about Baltimore and DC and place is more in between spaces than Towson. Exactly kind of distance off to the angle, but equal distance between both and kind of overlaps in these communities in space. Talk a bit about, you know, being a student and a marketing student at Towson University.

Dov

Sure, I’d love to.

So, I really have to look back and say. If it wasn’t for the people that help me throughout the way, I wouldn’t be where I am today. And that’s the way that I live my life today. If there is any student or really anyone in their career or anyone in their life that I can spend a few minutes of my time helping out, I will always jump and do that because I really feel helping others goes a long way.

And a few things specifically about my college journey that I’ll share are. One thing, as I mentioned, I started off studying business and then I knew I wanted to focus on marketing. And one of the advisors in the business school at the time at Towson was someone that I kept getting all these emails from, and I’m like, who is this person?

And I eventually tracked her down and started talking to her, and she told me that if I was able to take a few more classes, I could have a double major of marketing as a concentration and electronic business, if you believe that or not. So I figured, well, my number one goal when I graduate college is to get a job and if I can get myself to stand out among my competition, because I now have this dual major.

I’m all for it. Let’s go. Right. So I ended up doing that to help market myself, and I then quickly started becoming involved in student organizations like the AMA and the EBA, which is the Electronic Business Association, and a number of other student groups I held leadership positions in. Now, I will tie in my experience to AMA as well in the sense of when I was at Towson involved in the student chapter, I was not really aware of the local chapter network right throughout the country. I also wasn’t heavily familiar with AMA national, and I also can dive into this deeper later or now either way, but there’s a whole story behind my connection to AMA Baltimore and really fast forward to today, that only has gotten tighter and tighter over these years.

Bennie

It’s really powerful when we think about your connection and proximity and community between Baltimore, Towson, DC and the region and like this journey. So we’re talking about tracking down and we were laughing before, so we had connected online in all types of ways, but hadn’t connected in person until our International Collegiate Conference and I remember spending the days there and everyone telling me, Dov is looking for you. Dov is looking for you every time we look around and having a chance to see you, but not have you see me interacting with the students that were around there and having, being there as not just an AMA chapter leader. Not just a VP at a major firm, but as someone who had been in their exact shoes in the exact way as an accessible model. 

And it was fun as we finally got a chance to connect in all the different spaces. But you know, the two of us trying to connect in a community of 1500 top college students, having a conversation about marketing was kind of really powerful. And to see you bring it full cycle. And then the next week we connected in Baltimore once again at another nexus of students, of practitioners, of academics, all under the head of marketing community. How do you find inspiration in bringing those things together? It comes so naturally when I see you around, you’re pulling in all of these parts of our diverse marketing community in a way that’s so inspirational and seamless.

Dov

Yeah, great question, and I’d say easy one for me to answer in the sense that there’s a lot I can share on that. I get so inspired and so fired up based on my own personal experience. And being in New Orleans at AMA’s International Collegiate Conference was probably one of the most remarkable experiences I’ve had in my life in some ways, in the sense that it was a convergence of my world. And I had never been to that conference before, but I had heard so much about it over so many years from folks in Baltimore that have gone with a collegiate presence. And to see it firsthand was remarkable. Just to see the energy of the students and really knowing that this is the future generation of marketing and business leaders and if we as folks senior to them can help guide them along the way, there’s no ceiling to what they can accomplish. And then on the other side, being at a large global marketing advertising, communications agency, Weber Shandwick, I got to recruit for my agency at that conference. 

And I would say sort of like the overlapping piece that is probably the best part of it all is I was standing there day in, day out of the conference recruiting for my firm and telling my own personal story, right? It almost gave me goosebumps and chills. With each and every student I would, would talk to. And it does the same for me now, Bennie, and maybe for you and others, our listeners as well. But I was telling these students, this is the path that I went through, right? And I want you as a student to think now if I could fast forward 15 years into my life or mm-hmm. Any number of times. What do I want that book to look like? Or what do I want those chapters to be? And I didn’t have someone necessarily when I was a student or early in my career, I had a lot of informal mentors who I still have to today.

But I never really had the question posed to me, what do you want your life to look like 15 years from now? Mm-hmm. And it’s daunting, but I hope that the advice and stories that I was telling these students landed, and I hope that 15 years from now someone reaches out to me and says, I was in New Orleans and you were at this table talking to me. There’s nothing greater joy than I could have. The additional best part of it is that as any good marketer, we always wanna know where did it come from? What’s the referral source? Well, we would be able to say AMA, so,

Bennie

You know, I love the stories. We talked about it and our first question was about inspiration and aspiration. And they’re both deeply personal. You’re right. Those ways we come in. I think about, you know, often when we think about marketing, we think about the larger cities. We think about the larger communities, but this really robust connection with Baltimore. You know, your presence there, both recruitment and speaking and engaging, but also the universities and colleges who were intending.

So Towson was there, you know, University of Maryland, Baltimore County was there, Johns Hopkins and even Morgan State, uh, HBCU, and their first time attending were all a part of kind of this Baltimore Nexus. I’ve heard in past conversations that sometimes we don’t even have you in where folks reference you being there and it’s, I think it’s a really powerful testament to the fact that we have to be able to see and experience aspiration and inspiration.

Now, when you think about community, what draws you and keeps you in Baltimore, what keeps you connected to Baltimore as a space?

Dov

Great question Bennie. And I’ll say just for the listeners and everyone’s knowledge, so I’m not originally from Baltimore, originally from Maryland. I grew up in New York, was born in Brooklyn, lived in Queens, and then spent some time in Staten Island. The forgotten borough before we moved to Baltimore in we, 

Bennie

We’re not holding any of this against you. 

Dov

I know, I know. And as I said, I was like, should I say this? Um, all joking aside. Yes. And then in 98, moved to Baltimore and two things that I’ll say are, Baltimore has the nickname, Charm City. And I would like to say that over my time since 98, which is going on decades and decades, I have only continued to see the charm that this city has to offer.

And it’s the type of thing that I’ve realized over time, it only gets more and more with that. And the other thing I’ll say is Baltimore has a nickname of small of who knows who and who do you know type of situation. And I think that’s the type of thing also for me that right when I got involved in the business school at Towson and then after graduating and being involved with the AMA, I quickly realized I, and part of the reason to sort of backtrack for a moment why I went to Towson and picked Towson is because it felt just about right, right meaning, and so much has changed from the time I was there to today of it expanding and being such a booming, wonderful university that’s so reputable and produces such great talent and students.

But when I was applying and looking at schools, Towson felt just about right in the sense that it wasn’t too big, it wasn’t too small, it was sort of a Goldilocks fit. And over my time there, I only felt that I managed to increase in the sense that I realized this is something that I can make it whatever I want and I can be a big fish in a small pond. And I think Baltimore is the type of place that I would say. Both in terms of the presence of my agency, also the presence of AMA Baltimore, and just broader as a city of, whether it’s the sports teams or just the people or the makeup of Baltimore. I would say both to the AMA community, but also to the world.

Hey everyone, watch out. Baltimore is a great place and there’s so much amazing things that can and will come out of it.

Bennie

It speaks to the fact that there’s so many great schools of marketing and business in this region, and having practitioners and professionals like yourselves double down on the importance of working with the students and having it tie into the space. It’s really powerful that you served as both a content speaker at our ICC, but also this is a path where we’re bringing talent together. 

You know, one of the things that we talk a lot about with our collegiate conference, it’s the largest collegiate conference of marketing students in the world. And always every year blown away by the passion, the commitment, the excitement, and the work effort that’s gone into this space for our communities.

I’m in a pivot a little bit and talk a bit about work. You know, we, we started off, you did this double major, right? So it took you down a path of, and I put a pin in it took you down a path, my friend of electric business as we heard through before, and, and marketing, you know, thinking back to it, to an era where we’re trying to find the definitions around, around what this new landscape of digital engagement and web engagement across our businesses look like.

Now you’re leading a lot of, uh, cutting edge work. Across digital engagement for companies. What has changed the most, you think, in your experience from those days of opening up the first articles around this space of e-business to what companies need to think about today?

Dov

I would say the way that I think about things in some ways is even though so much has changed and we’re in 2025 now, I also feel to an extent there’s so much that can be done with just core principles, and if those are done well in this ever evolving marketing landscape, you can really supercharge what you’re doing, right? So a few things I’ll say about work with that in terms of the way I approach it is I’m sure many listeners are familiar with Jay Bear, who’s a well known customer experience strategist and author, and to really continue to bring all my worlds together. 

Around a decade ago, I was at a marketing conference hosted by AMA Triangle down in North Carolina.

Bennie

Yes.

Dov 

And Jay was one of the speakers there, and it was a little bit after the time that his book Utility had come out. And really the concept behind that is why smart marketing is about help, not hype. And at the time I was working at a regional content marketing agency and something that Jay had said really stood out to me and I use it with my clients to this day because I got my career started really heavily involved in the trenches of content marketing, and I think it does so much for businesses and consumers, but really the difference between helping and selling is just two letters. And I would say that is really a mindset that I’ve subscribed to throughout my career. And changing those two letters really shifts your thinking of if I’m gonna just try to sell, sell, sell to someone like I have had, and I’m sure you and others have.

How many times do we as marketers, we get emails and LinkedIn messages and phone calls, and I think certain people think more is better. And if I just keep hammering this person, I’m actually getting annoyed and frustrated because I’m like, you don’t even. Know what is important to me, right? So I always start with the customer first, and even with my clients at work, always thinking about who are their clients.

And we need to really take an audience first approach. And I think that really is applicable both in my work environment, but also in the AMA, I mean. It doesn’t get more meta than this. In terms of  AMA Baltimore and AMA national, we are marketing to marketers about marketing. And with that we’re able to lean in and have a lot of fun with it.

So I’d say that’s a little bit about sort of my way of thinking and approach for marketing. I’d also wanna say a couple other things on that note are. Folks that know me know that I’m big on marketing quotes and right. A couple that I’m aligned with are one by Andrew Davis, who’s another keynote speaker and bestselling author, and he says, content builds relationships.

Relationships are built on trust, and trust drives revenue. And going back to what I said earlier in this episode about. You need to make sure your marketing is completely aligned with your business goals and objectives. That hits home right there. 

And then another one that I will say also from Tom Fishburn, he’s probably well known to folks as well, founder and CEO at Marketist is the best. Marketing doesn’t feel like marketing and how true that is when, right. And I think it really is somewhat of a convergence of when you take all of these and combine ’em together and you use Jay’s mindset of. Helping not selling. And Andrews of building relationships and trust and driving revenue of business impact.

Bennie

Right. I love, you know, combining those quotes together to really create this marketing trust kind of framework and structure that we sometimes people can take for granted, but it’s so incredibly important.

The first thing I thought about when you said, if you’re just spamming me or blasting their information, it’s there, it feels like an assault. It feels like an erosion of trust. There was space in there. Now, one of the things that’s interesting is our expectations have evolved over time as well. Now, what advice do you give for marketers and clients?When we think about the expectations, I tell my teams all the time, if we locked in something 10 years ago and we haven’t gone back to reconsider it today, what are we doing? Right? Has you think about, the world has changed in 10 years, in five years and 24 months, you know, your products have changed in that space.

So the question is always, have your audiences changed? Have your customers changed? And we know the answer is yes. You know, it’s really rhetorical, but does that drive our strategy? So, you know, what advice do you give to clients to consider that

Dov

First and foremost, and I would say in big, bold caps.

Bennie

Yes.

Dov

Listen, and I will then say it again. Listen, yes. And I will then say it again. Listen and to your rhetorical question, which shouldn’t be answered, but I will answer any ways. Yes, it has changed. And the world isn’t the same that it was 24 months ago, or five years ago, or 10 years ago. But because of the changes, we need to listen.

Bennie

Hmm.

Dov

And the thing that I love about my agency and the resources and team members and talent that we have is we have some really smart and sharp team members. Who approaches it the same way of using strategy and research and really rooting that as the foundation of what we do. We don’t do anything creative and we have a great creative team without doing those steps first.

Yeah, and I think it’s one of those things, like thinking about a lot of my work over my career has spanned in the B2B space thinking about the buyer’s journey and if we don’t really look at all that shame on us. And the other thing I will say, even though a lot has changed, I am a firm believer of, if you stick to the principles and helping to weave all this together about my life and my journey.

When I was back at Towson, after I started and went down the path of, let me do this double major. I started going to all these different student organization events and I kid you not, Bennie, I had two events back to back weeks where there were panelists speaking and a famous question at the time, which I still think rings true today is.

What advice do you have for up and coming students? And related to that is what books do you recommend they read? In today’s day and age, you may modify that to say what podcasts should be listened to. But the book that was recommended was Dale Carnegie, his How To Win Friends and Influence People

.

And after hearing it for the second time at that event, I said, there must be something there. I went and ordered that book, and to this day I’ve read it, I’ve re-read it, and I would say to all our listeners, if you haven’t, go out and get it. And if you have, go out and reread it and then spend some time thinking about how and what can this do for me personally, professionally, and you’d 

probably be far amazed at what the impact could really do for you.

Bennie

Wow. So we talk a bit about, about journeys and student questions. When you talk to student, what questions do you wish they asked you?

Dov

I think probably a little bit more of them diving deeper into specifics. And what I mean by that is I looked at when I was a student and I look at marketing today and I think ahead to what marketing will be in 1, 2, 5, 10 years from now, which really is, in some way, the fool’s job of doing, because we can’t predict what that’s gonna be. But what we do know is it has just expanded so much, right? With the convergence of marketing, advertising, communications, ai. Like we could spend, we probably would run out of episodes trying to go through and cover it all.

But I guess I would say is I wish students would ask a bit more. In depth questions about a specific area, so, for myself, I’ve spent a lot of my career, in some ways self-taught about digital marketing, B2B strategy, content marketing, email marketing, other areas and facets as well, and half jokingly, but more so serious.

When I often talk to students, I tell them, you are so lucky to be a student today. Because there’s this amazing website, and Bennie, you may be thinking, I’m talking about AMA’s website, which I am, but it’s not my specific point here. There’s this amazing website that can give you answers to any and everything that you could ever think of and want. And as a marketer, I’m obviously drumming it up, but that website is Google. It’s a search engine. And I tell students. You live in a world where the landscape has evolved and changed so much, and if you wanna know more about content marketing, you’re not gonna become an expert overnight, and you’re not gonna become an expert in a few days or weeks.

But what I know for myself and sort of where I feel I excel both professionally and also in my AMA world, is I have rolled up my sleeves and I have really done my due diligence to learn about areas of voting and SEO. And I wouldn’t say I’m an SEO expert or I wouldn’t say have a Fortune 500 company hire me as a coder for their email programs, or I’m not creative, I wouldn’t want to handle all the right visual design elements, but I have spent time in and out over the years.

Just Googling and searching and finding resources, like for example, that I often tell students, it’s like if you wanna go down the path of content marketing, right? Because of it being content marketing, it’s not gonna take you very far to find the Content Marketing Institute. Right. Which I know has partnerships with AMA and like, because it’s content marketing.

And going back to this point about Jay of. Helping for selling content Marketing Institute is an endless resource of so much good for anyone who wants to know anything about the content marketing space. And, and it’s a tough question to answer because at their stage in their career, they don’t know what they necessarily wanna spend their career doing.

And I’m not saying that they need to have that solidified, but I wish at their stage in their. Marketing career studies.They said, I wanna at least go down this path, even if it is short term, and ask questions that really showed that they did their homework and also so that they knew that that is an area that they want to at least further explore.

Bennie

Yeah. I think that’s an incredible kind of insight and nuance there. You know, I think I take from it being open and having, being open to intellectual curiosity. Going in, because often when we’re coming in schools, traditionally it’s been you pick something, you do something. That’s what you are, right? And we’re in a world in which it’s more dynamic and you’re going to evolve and opportunity’s gonna be there.

And having that space to kind of continually layer in. I read something about this topic. I see this happening over there. What I find is it often casts a reflection back on the things you already know and allows you to, oh, I could take my interest in math. My interests in science and combine it with my interest in art and look at what this opportunity creates, or to your point, this, this is how business has continued to grow. Oh, wow. I see something else in a parallel space that’s doing something different. This connection, connection to it, but I think, you know, encouraging our students and our learners and our professionals to be open to learning. Bringing that back in. ’cause what we do know is, although, we’ll, we all can get a hundred points for being a hundred percent wrong about guessing on the future, which is the fun part about it, we have nothing to lose by imagining it.

Right. So true. Right. We are gonna be either painfully right and painfully wrong all of the time and thinking about it and blown away. But as a, as a student, as you think about where the future is, um. What are the things that, where do you go for, for that inspiration? You know, what, what are, what are areas that give you signals to go, okay, this, this is something I should pay attention to?

Dov

I promise I’m not just saying this because this is the AMA podcast, but I look at my own career, life and journey and AMA, and I say that in a few ways. Both like. AMA Baltimore, so there’s around 70 chapters throughout the country, which I think our listeners probably are aware of at this point from listening and tuning into AMA.

But in any major market or city that someone is in, there is an AMA chapter that they can tie themselves to. Right. AMA national as an organization, has so much good that they do as well, and. I would say in the 15 plus years that I’ve been involved on a local chapter level with AMA Baltimore, I’ve gone to almost every single event.

And when you think that we have around 20 or more events a year, right? I’m not gonna do math here on the podcast right now, um, but. That’s a lot. And it’s one of these things that the way I approach AMA is the more you give, the more you get. And I’ve put in a lot of time, energy, and effort in my AMA journey, but I know it has been tremendous and I wouldn’t be where I am today without that.

So I would say that definitely is one. Another area I would say is I am very grateful for the agency of Weber Shandwick because we do have super smart and sharp talented individuals working at the agency. And whether it’s through forums that we have, bringing team members together on different subject matter areas, learning that way, or I often would recommend.

Just reaching out to someone that you know, that has an area that they’re an expert in and ask them, um, and I’ll sort of continue to tie all this together. Advice that I was giving to students at the ICC in New Orleans is something that I didn’t tell to students specifically for many, many years now, but it’s not limited to just students, it applies to anyone.

It’s what I have nicknamed the Starbucks model. Okay? And these numbers can be adjusted. And really what the Starbucks model is, is I tell students, for example, pick 30 people and to get to those 30 people, they can be 10 of your friend’s parents, 10 of your parents’, friends. 10 people that you look up to. And when I was in New Orleans at the conference, I told ’em, I said, I can be one of your 10 people if you want for that category.

Bennie

Mm-hmm.

Dov

And I tell students this specifically because I look back at myself as a student and. You don’t know what you don’t know, right? And you may feel intimidated by[how am I gonna sit down with a VP at a company, or even more intimidating a CEO of a company?

What am I gonna talk to them about? And I tell them, you don’t really have to worry. There’s a fun fact, especially people in marketing. Guess what? They like talking. So they will do the talking. So as long as you come up with these questions and ask them, your work is done, all you have to do, going back to that thing that we said earlier that repeated multiple times, all you have to do is listen. And if you listen, it will go so far. And what I tell them is ask questions like. How did you get to the role that you’re in now? What have you learned over your career journey that you would put as some of your greatest successes? What would you put as some of your biggest failures? If you could go back in time as a student, what would you tell your younger self?

And then lastly, what books or podcasts or resources do you have for someone interested in insert area here? Would you recommend? And I have told them, I said, if you spend a half hour with each of these 30 people and get a cup of coffee, or other fun fact, I actually don’t drink coffee. I am just wired to not do that.

And I would say if students spend time doing this with those 30 people. The half hour sessions that they spend coupled with their studies would do so much for them in their career. And it’s like if they were to just say, I’m gonna do that once and I never do it again. With those 30 people, they would be so far more successful than their peers.

If they were to say, I’m gonna make this like an annual thing that I do. I pick 30 people and talk to them. It’s amazing what that would end up doing for them. So I would say that’s really probably a really big piece of advice that I would say that I have done in some informal ways myself over my career.

And I would say I really have crowdsourced. At the agencies I’ve worked at, at the, the clients I’ve connected with over my career, the AMA folks on a local, regional, and national level. Um, I really would say even though I’m no longer a quote unquote student, I’m always gonna learning mode. And I think the more we can think about ourselves as sponges and soaking up as much as we can.

The impact we can have is endless. And one thing that I would just wanna say, I wanna make sure listeners take away with them is something that I would say could be applied broadly to marketing as well as aspects of your life. And that is something from the late Kobe Bryant who. Growing up, I was a Sixers fan and I was a diehard MJ fan, so I was not a fan of the Lakers.

But over the years, I’ve, I’ve turned around and I really have this rule and principle from Kobe that sticks with me. And it’s this idea of get better every single day. And that is a quote that I have behind my desk in my home office, and it’s a constant reminder. We have the ability to continuously improve, even if it’s with small tweaks and over time, they can make the big differences in our lives.

And it’s been quite some time now that I have had that behind me. And I start my day every morning walking into my office looking at that and realizing if we just think, even if it’s this tiny thing that we change, I. You’d be amazed at over time what that could be.

Bennie

That my friend is an incredible moment to end our conversation on today.

Be open. Be open to learning, continually grow, crowdsource that growth. And listen, listen, listen. Thank you do for sharing this incredible integrated journey that takes you from. A lawn business to Weber Shandwick, to serving as a student in an organization, to leading as a volunteer leader to leading with passion, growth, and a love for marketing and community.

Thank you so much for being an incredible part. In an example in our AMA community. Both locally and nationally, thank you for being my guest and thank you for tracking me down and being my friend. Likewise, Dan and I thank you all for joining us. This has been an incredibly heartfelt episode of AMA’s Marketing and we continue to encourage you to explore all of the latest professional notes, tools, learnings that we have within the AMA community.

We also encourage you to get involved in your local AMA chapters at university levels, at the practitioner level in your community, at a community that continues to grow and provide opportunities for you to give and grow. Thank you all for joining us.