Transcript

Bennie F Johnson 

Hello, and thank you for joining us for this special episode of AMA’s Marketing / And. I’m your host, AMA CEO, Bennie F. Johnson. In today’s episode, we’ll explore life through a marketing lens, delving into conversations with individuals that flourish at this intersection of marketing and the unexpected. We’ll introduce you to visionaries whose stories you might not yet have heard of, but are exactly the ones you need to know.

Through our thought-provoking conversations, we’ll unravel the challenges, triumphs, and pivotal moments that have been shaped by marketing. Today, our very special guest is none other than the force of nature, Ivo Lucas. Ivo is an entrepreneur, an angel investor, and CEO and founder of 24Notion. 24Notion is a dynamic, integrated marketing and digital PR and lifestyle agency with a special emphasis on giving back to global communities. With a broad understanding of the art of nontraditional marketing, new media, communications, and social influence, Ivo has a wealth of experience in building and maintaining brands for Fortune 500 and 1,000 companies. Before the creation of 24Notion, Ivo led global initiatives that expanded beyond Asia-Pacific, European, Latin American, and North American markets. As a leader in entrepreneurship,and empowerment. She’s an advocate and sits on boards with several organizations that encourage this empowerment of the next generation of leaders, especially women in technology and STEM. Ivo is passionate about leading, nurturing and mentoring the next generation. My friend, welcome to the podcast.

Ivo Lukas

Thank you, thank you, Bennie. Thank you for having me and thank you for AMA for having me.

Bennie 

It’s so just an honor to have you here. And to start off our conversation, one of the things that just struck me is you immediately said, if we take nothing away from our conversation, let’s inspire the next generation. That’s like a wonderful way to end, but it’s an incredible way to start. So when did you become so passionate about thinking about what’s next?

Ivo 

Yes, yes, yes.

Bennie, that’s probably, do we have like three hours? I’m just kidding. No, I think I just have passion of helping. You know, that’s kind of how it started. Starting off, you know, I work, obviously move up the ladder pretty quickly at the young age, working through it. But I knew that there’s always along the way, there is something else that I really want to do more.

Bennie

Yeah.

Ivo 

You know, so it’s kind of like the purpose. You kind of have to realize that I’m so passionate of what I do. Believe it or not, I love what I do, Bennie. This is kind of what’s crazy. People ask me like, this is great. What do how do you do it? I’m like, I just love what I do. I wake up every morning. I get to be creative. get to speak with amazing customers, client, partners, team. I mean, you name it. It’s always great to kind of help the others. Right. So.

Bennie 

Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

Ivo

I think ever since I was young, I just loved the idea of helping people, you know? Supporting the next generation is key as well because I think that I started from a very humble beginning. And I think I knew how hard it is to get to where you are, Bennie, if you kind of have to grind it. And I think that’s kind of has been embedded with me within the very get-go, you know?

Bennie

Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Right. Take us back to that, to your beginning. Take us back to your origin story.

Ivo

Yeah, man. I think, you know, I moved up the ladder pretty quickly. I’ll give you a short answer first, right? Before I started my own agency, I was working with this. Obviously, I move up in a ladder pretty quickly, but I also work in a company or agency that is a little bit different, right? So I’m a pretty curious child. I was in a dot com era at one point. I was also in telecommunication, you name it.

Do a certain key. was also moved to third largest home shopping network. I think that was kind of the biggest, well for me to learn how to create and innovate at that time. You know, how do you buy products through e-commerce and then creating the TV, you know, digital version of it. I think those are the key things that I did. And then last but not least, before I kind of start my own agency, I was recruited to work with one of the third private largest PR agencies, obviously. And then one of those customers that they have is Microsoft. Microsoft is their big clientele. And I was supposed to build there, and I did, I built an entire digital marketing within their umbrella. So essentially we expanded across, now, APAC, LATAM, EMEA, and also the United States. So I bridge that creative and marketing basically into that as well. 

So that was kind of the big thing. But as you know, I work so hard and you work, I mean, you’re grinding it, Bennie. It’s like when you work at the corporate or agencies like nonstop 24/7, you know, 18 hours and things like that. And that was kind of the big thing. But throughout this whole journey that I had, I always wonder, I said, when the corporation makes money, how come you’re not giving back? That was like the big thing in the back of my mind. 

When I was at this telecommunication company, I remember they were asking like, hey, if you want to give back to, you know, X, Y, and Z, you could take a percentage off from your salary. And then we’re like, wait, I’m already like not making money, Bennie, at that time. You’re grinding it. I’m like, why am I taking money out of my salary where I’m already not doing a lot of money? So one thing that I realized in the back of my mind is as I move up the ladder, the bigger the company is, the less they’re giving back.

Bennie 

Right, right. Mm-hmm.

Ivo 

So those sort of things for me, I’m like, wow, there has to be something here to give back, right? So anyway, fast forward, I was in that pivotal moment. I realized that I was working so hard. I have to focus on my health. That was kind of the big thing. I was in that crossroad. When you work 18, 20 hours a day, your body just takes a toll on it. So I ended up leaving that job and realizing I have to get better, right? And get better and healthier.

Bennie 

Right. Right. Isn’t it amazing when you realize that your body has a veto vote?

Ivo 

And I did. Yep, exactly. And then it just tapped out, you know, it just literally, I mean, there’s only so much you could do and you’re like, there has to be something more. So in the middle of the night, I literally just wrote down like a few things that I want to do, some attributes. And the next morning I saw that attribute. There’s so many of them. There’s 24 of them. There’s an attribute, kindness, purpose, you name it, all this stuff that I have to do. And I realized it’s like, I want to do some sort of  marketing, integrated marketing, but it’s also with the emphasis of giving back. So that’s basically what I, you know, basically form it and started it. And I, the funny thing, Bennie, like I started to write a business plan, a pager and brought it to all the investor. I mean, I met, I must’ve met and chat with over a dozen investor out there mentor. Each one of them, Bennie told me that I, this is going to fail. Like each one of them, literally like they’re like, Ivo, this isn’t going to work.

What is this integrated marketing all about? What is this modern marketing? And then on top of them, you’re going to give back. You’re crazy. It’s never going to work. know? So a lot of them actually, the naysayers are like, you’re going to tap out by five years, two years you’re going to fold. It’s a lot of, a lot of news basically. Came back. I was bawling in the closet, crying so much. You know, I was like, my gosh, my life is over. But no.

Bennie

Right.

Ivo 

I’m a risk taker. So basically I told everybody not to do this, but I kind of tap into my 401k and went all in. And that was literally over a decade ago, Betty. We were profitable. were, I mean, we’re amazing. A lot of those people came back to us like, Hey, do you want, know, us investing? I’m like, we don’t need anymore. We’re like, I’m just going to bootstrap the agency and that’s kind of where we are. Yep. Exactly.

Bennie 

Wow. Describe that feeling, right? We always talk about when we come and we have the dream and we share it and not everybody can see it, not everyone can feel it, not everybody can believe in it like you do. Describe that feeling though when it comes back full circle and you’re, like you said, you’re living in the purpose and the business plan is on fire. It’s like, I’ll invest in you now.

Ivo

Oh man. Please. Yeah, it is. Well, it’s great because I just it was kind of like you get the sense of like credibility, right? Because it was such a blessing already. You’re like you work so hard to get where you are. It is never going to be, it’s never going to be enough, right? Because you’re like, oh, you got to do more. You got to do it faster. But I think what I realized,  why I bootstrapped it, Bennie, because I’m able to kind of control it in a sense of how I want to grow the agency to.

Because if I would have taken some of this investor investment, I don’t think it would just be going back to where I was before, know, 20 hours a week, panic attack and then like having a health issue. That was kind of the big thing for me because I’m a pretty ambitious kid as well, you know? So I think the feeling was just amazing. The feeling that just knowing that you got the credibility that you’re able to kind of make it and also able to support.

Bennie 

Right. Mm-hmm.

Ivo 

That was the big thing for me. It was like at the end of the day, whatever the agency is doing, I want to make sure that I’m empowering the next generation. You know, there’s so many kids out there that needed some sort of a, just a door opener, Bennie. That was kind of why we’re so big about giving back, but not so much of just specific, you know, education or whatnot. We focus a lot of underprivileged kids. We focus a lot on girls, you know, on STEM or STEAM and just opening up the door. I think those are the key for us.

Bennie 

Right. Right. Right. It’s so true. I’m going to ask this bit of a question because in your bio, you know, you first describe yourself as an entrepreneur or one, but then as an angel investor, number two, how did your experience going through this investor loop inform the way you think about investing in others?

Ivo

Yep, I think that all happened because no one invested in me, unless for the agency. was like, literally, so I was speaking, I mean, this is kind of full circle. I would say about eight to nine years ago, I was speaking at this, you know, it’s like a pop talk. It’s like a keynote or whatnot. When it’s done, one of these lady came approach me and they’re like, hey, listen, I really love what you say. Is there a way for us to grab coffee?

Bennie 

Right, right.

Ivo

But anyway, to make a long story short, we had coffee and I didn’t realize she’s actually starting up something sweet, actually for her business venture. Little did I know I started to just kind of invest in her in a sense of like being a mentor. I think that’s the big thing for her. And then slowly from that portion, I didn’t realize that I was investing in her, mentoring her when she did her startup. I was kind of helping her kind of launch her venture basically.

Bennie

Mm-hmm. Okay. Right.

Ivo 

And then a lot of these nonprofits also came to us suddenly like, hey, is there a way for you to help us with marketing? We’re like, you don’t need to pay. I mean, like you’re nonprofit. This is like the key for you to make your money. The thing is we could just help you out. So that all started is basically wildfire, Bennie. Like we were giving back to those, you know, girls in technology, some of those girls in engagement as well, girls Inc and whatnot and they wanted some support from us. So we give a little bit of both. Sometimes we give monetarily. Sometimes they say they came back to us. like, we don’t want your money, but we just want your help for marketing support. So that’s all kind of ripple effects. And then I realized that, wow, there’s so much opportunity for us to share in terms of giving back and supporting that next generation. And the next thing you know, I was asked to be part of the board this and then people just come, know, like, hey, is there a way for you to be a judge at this, you know, we’re doing a competition program and awards. And that kind of just went from like zero the next thing you know, building that community, supporting community and helping the education and the next generation as well.

Bennie

Mm-hmm. Right. It’s amazing when you see the benefits of this positive gravity, right? You see this compelling force that you’re talking about. As you get excited about helping one, it turns into helping many. It turns into helping the community. When you talk to clients now, you know, I can’t help but imagine that this comes through, like that there’s something a bit more to the work. Working with 24 notions, a bit different. Give me your pitch. How to…

Ivo 

Yeah. Well, I think that some of our clients, the majority of our clients care. We try really hard to educate them without educating them in a sense like, here’s who we are and what we do. We don’t really want to emphasize and put that pressure on them, right, to use us. So as an agency, we’re always big in…

Bennie 

How do you share that with clients that this is gonna be a different journey?

Ivo 

Performance. Bennie, at the end of the day, I need to perform for our client. If they’re not getting the KPI, then we’re failing, right? That’s the key. When we tell our client from the very beginning, when we did like, let’s say RFP or whatnot way back when is we just let them know we’re like, Hey, we’re an integrated marketing agency, but with an emphasis of giving back, you know, so when you work with us is obviously, you know, a percentage of those goes to the specific category. 

The door is always open. Every quarter or every year we always change, right? Sometimes we change on education. Sometimes we change on like, you know, specific on technology or on girls, you know, in technology, things of that nature. So a lot of them know that they’re kind of doing goods, you know, on the side, but oftentimes when it comes to business, they’re always focused on business. You know, how, how do my dollars stretch? How do I get my return ROI? 

Bennie

Right.

Ivo 

We just, we just tell it as it is, you know, we just tell them we’re at integrated marketing and then we emphasize on here’s the list that we usually give back. And just so, you know, do sort of a big thing for us. It’s important for us to do that. Yeah.

Bennie

Now, I find it interesting that when you talk about creating 24Notion about a decade ago, you had to explain what an integrated marketing and PR agency was. That’s not so much your challenge today, but how have you seen the work evolve over the last decade?

Ivo 

Yes.

Man, it was changing, Bennie. It was kind of, I would say it’s tough at the beginning because they don’t really understand, right? They’re like, what is that? So, the great thing I kind of have a good accolades kind of moving up that ladder, you know, work with Microsoft. Work with a lot of fortune 500. So a lot of these people that comes back to us, it becomes like a referral program, you know? So we work with one company and the company is like, wow, you guys did a great job.

Bennie 

Mm-hmm. Right. Right, right.

Ivo 

And that’s the reason why what’s so big about us is like relationship building. We’re so good about making sure that we, our customer comes first, our client comes first. And then essentially we show them by, you know, the ROI, the KPI, the performance is always key, you know? So the evolvement is usually we, when we call off integrated marketing, oftentimes we look at the problem that they want to solve. So oftentimes we will, they would come to us, like, hey, we have this issue with X, and Z. We want to build a lead gen. We want to build a demand gen. How do we even go about doing that? So we show them, by showing them essentially, you are creating this gap, or what we call the bridging the gap, from what it means for integrated marketing. So those are the key.

Bennie

Mm-hmm. Well, we talk about bridging the gap. We’ve often said that the lines between advertising, monarchy, and PR are completely blurred today in the space in there. One of the things that I’ve been excited about to hear you talk about is the role of CSR today.

So you started 10 years ago and said, this is going to be front and center for the work that we do. I mean, there’s space in there. And to see now the awards that are coming in and the recognition for the work that you’ve done around corporate social responsibility, talk about what that means to you today.

Ivo

Yes. Yeah, that was really great, Bennie. Like it’s so crazy. Like when we started, like over a decade ago, we actually were nominated and awarded with, don’t even, you remember there’s this thing called classy awards is way back. So that award was like, again, an accolade where it kind of like, wow, we really did the right thing. So keep going. So basically we were shortlisted as an integrated marketing agency with the emphasis of giving back. That was like the big thing for us. Right. And, it’s so important for corporate social responsibility. I guess it goes back to my humble beginning where I was telling you, it’s like, how come the companies are not giving more? The more you make in my, you know, presume, you know, thought is they should give back more, right? Obviously there’s a bottom line, there’s expenses, operation, you know, costs and things of that nature. I think for us it’s like, how do we make sure we educate our customers and the clients that we work with. So essentially they know the importance of CSR, you know. So those sort of thing is also key for us. And I think we not only educating, but showing it to them as well. So we submitted it, a lot of those as well early, you know, throughout the years. I mean, we try really hard to be on a background, but a lot of people say, Hey, you should submit this for CSR because it’s key. So we did that at the first like six, seven, eight years where we kept coming back to the business journal. Came back. 

Actually, there’s a funny story, actually, this whole thing. One day, this was like, you know, we’re already like five or six years throughout our agency. There was someone calling us and then somewhere along the line that day, I just happened to pick up the phone and this guy was from, I think a newspaper, media newspaper. He’s like, hey, listen, you guys like everywhere. You guys are like, you know, growing wildfire, you guys like CSR. What about buying like one page ad at the newspaper? Remember this, Bennie? It’s like a one page ad. Make you guys bigger because you want people, the whole world to know. Why don’t you just buy an ad? And I can’t remember the price tag he was giving us, right? And then, and I say, you know what? That’s such a great idea to tell people about who we are, about CSR. It just kind of blasts out. But you know why we haven’t done it. He was like, why?

Bennie

Right. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Ivo

I said, well, because that dollar that you just told me, I could have fed more kids at the school. I could have given more meals. I could have shared an after school with the girls and boy scouts to learn more about what is the definition of learning how to code, for example. And then, I  kid you not, I got these speechless like pause. So they’re like, yeah, I can’t ask you to pay for this, huh?

Bennie 

Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, my goodness.

Ivo 

So anyway, make a long story short is I think that’s pretty much our passion about showing. And oftentimes people didn’t realize like, who are you guys? We haven’t seen you guys because for us it’s so important for us to give back more to help the next generation succeed, more so than us getting to the next level.

Bennie

Well, I’m going to talk a little bit about you getting to the next level as well, because in parallel, you’re not only doing well by doing good, you’re also delivering really great work. You were voted one of 2025’s global top 10 agencies of the year.

Ivo

I know that’s amazing, right? It’s so humbling. So grateful about that.

Bennie

So did you ever imagine that moment when not the day, not the night you started 24Notion, but that week before, like that week before when you were staying up all night, you were stressed, know, work, life and body are out of balance. Did you ever think that we’d be sitting here having a conversation of being one of the top 10 agencies of the year?

Ivo

Thanks. Man, no. I mean, I have a vision, right? You always have a vision, aspiration, Bennie. You’re like, you want to be doing this, you want to do this, but sometimes to get there, you’re like, you tap out or you kind of hit, you know, he hit the top, right? No, I mean, we were just grateful because to be shortlist on this one, Bennie, we didn’t even submit anything. It’s basically the international award committee will have to choose you and shortlist you and then, you know, let you win.

Bennie 

Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

Ivo 

So there’s nothing that we did through submission or whatnot. It’s just basically 100 % them picking their top 10 agencies for 2025. And then that was it, we’re one of them. So definitely the answer is no, but we also know it’s a blessing. We just know that this is something that we were given. So we were excited through our hard work. I feel like, again, that was the great credibility and such a blessing for us to have this. So excited and humbled and also grateful about it.

Bennie 

When you get a chance to talk to other agencies that are starting, one of the things you said to me just earlier was, now is the time, I’m paraphrasing, but you’re like, now is the time to start a business. So you’re kind of a living example of that. Are the meme in this moment, right? To start a business. What advice do you have to, in particular, young women interested in technology and starting a business? What encouragement do you have?

Ivo

Yep. Yes, man, well, you kind of have to work hard. I think that’s one thing that I’ll tell them. Like it’s a hard road to go, Bennie. There’s not a day, I mean, you just can’t give up, right? That’s the whole point. I think for the young women, especially if you’re younger or you’re just starting out, like to be curious. I think it’s the key, right? You’ve got to be curious. You also know that you’re going to have to work hard. And I think that…Those are the key things for you to learn as much as you could. Like I remember I was learning, I was doing design, you know, work before. And then the next thing you know, it’s like, I need to build a website. I didn’t know how to do it. And then I just learned HTML, Bennie. Like not, not that I’m good at it, but I just go into like coding mode and self-taught myself. You know what mean? I think the curiosity is key, right? For you. 

So, I was like, why am I waiting? Why am I paying so much money? Why don’t I just learn how to code? So that’s how it started. Like how this whole digital thing with the HTML also for me to learn. I just learned how to code. Not that I’m good at it. And I realized that I am not good at it, but other people are good at it. Could do exactly right. You could build something halfway and like, okay, I need someone else that was better a developer to do this. So I think for the young women, I think for them is.

Bennie 

Right? Well, that’s half that’s half the battle, my friend.

Ivo

Find someone that you look up to be inspired. Mentorship is key. To me, Bennie is like the key. Find those people that you could surround yourself with. But also, sometimes you could surround yourself with someone that is not like you, because that’s how you learn things. I remember like just literally when I started this, I mean, you we were like, oh, we need to do this. I was like, how do I even find this out? So I just went out to somebody and asked them like, hey, listen, I need your help here.

I don’t know what I’m doing, but just tell me more. So I’ve seen that I encourage the young girls as well. I mean, whenever I give keynotes or speaking, there’s always that one or two that would come to me. And the next thing you know, I ended up mentoring them, you know, and LinkedIn with them, asking them, asking them questions and asking them to go for a coffee, you know, just kind of surround yourself, I think is key. And, and I think if they want, if they’re so passionate about their product or services, start bringing it, start doing it, just do it. And then bring it to the market and then test it out and if it’s not doing good and retest it out and make it as perfect as possible and then push it out.

Bennie

Excellent. Well, know, one of the things we talked a bit about, you know, being an integrated marketing and PR agency, digital PR agency. But what I find interesting is you’ve extended even further and you refer to yourself also as a lifestyle agency. When did that evolution take place?

Ivo 

I knew that at one point it is going to be part of your lifestyle because in order for you to love your, okay, let me go back a little bit, Bennie, it’s like in order for you to love your job and do it so well, you gotta be passionate, right? It’s part of your lifestyle. So it’s important for me to know that if you don’t love your job, most likely it’s gonna be, it might not work out for you. Let me just say that.

Bennie

Mm-hmm. Right, right.

Ivo 

I mean, that’s, that’s the number one thing. Like you have to love what you do and then what are you passionate about? What are your hobbies? What are your interests? And I think that that became my lifestyle. I’m kind of the living testament of it. Like that is my last, I love my job. I love what I do and I’m really good at it. And then I love making our client and customer succeed. So I think that became my lifestyle, with my passion and purpose. So I think dosing and involvement as I grow the business and I was able to help the others as well, Bennie, but also on top of them, just seeing them succeed, I think that brings joy for me. So that lifestyle is just part of who you are. So my thing is if you’re starting something out, you have to see it, right? Like you have to see it, whether you want to do this or not.

And then you just do it for money. And I kid you not, there’s so many people that come to me now, I got, got pitched all the time, Bennie, where people say, hey, listen, I want you to invest in my company. I’m like, for what? And they’ll tell me. And then I asked one simple question, Bennie, like, hey, what is your purpose for this? He goes, I want to make a ton of money. I knew when that happened, I’m like, okay, guys, let me just really back up.

Bennie 

Right. Right, let’s bring her back in. So you told us what used to keep you up at night. I’m curious now what gets you up in the morning.

Ivo

I think what gets me up in the morning is making a difference each day. Because my day is not the same every day. And when I wake up, I know it’s like, how can I make a difference today? I think that’s the big thing for me,

Bennie 

Right. How can I make a difference each day? Which is really, really kind of a powerful space. It’s that, I’m a big believer in that, just incrementally better, right? What can we do just to make it little better? And we hope that all of our efforts add to it more. Now, you’ve had a great experience. You’ve said you’ve worked with entrepreneurs, both large and small, beginning and you’ve also worked with really big brands and small brands in there.

Ivo 

Mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely. Yep, absolutely.

Bennie 

In today’s world, what advice do you have for big brands that you’ve learned from small brands and vice versa?

Ivo 

Okay. That’s easy. Actually, actually it could, it could be complicated. I think the startup world is so exciting, Bennie. I think that grinding it, you know, you wear a lot of hats, you have to be nimble, you have to go fast. I think those are the key. And what I see is we work with so many startups and also enterprises. When you hit that enterprise, sometimes we become a roadblock because you need to have 80 people to approve one. Bennie.

Like literally, I’m like, wait a minute, why does it take forever to get this approval where you could just launch it and go with it? You know? So I think for the enterprise level, it’s like they have to go back to their roots, you know, and figure out there are certain things that you want to make sure that when you bring your product and services, it needs to be as perfect as possible. But I think get it out there to the market for them to chew on it, to test it out. I think those are key.

Those are pretty much for the enterprise. And then also a risk taking, right? I think risk taking is really key for an enterprise. A lot of time there’s so much red tape because they’re so large and they’re so big that they can’t even move the needle. You know, those are kind of the thing I think from a startup company, I think are from the startup entrepreneurship. I think the key for them is, you know, you gotta again, like push the product and services to the market, get a focus, understand what the market looks like, because the market literally will tell you whether they want it or not. Do you remember? I don’t know. You probably remember this, Bennie. In a dot com, there is this company called Webvan. was then was the whole, you know, grocery system. Basically now it’s kind of like DoorDash, Amazon, name it grocery store. Right. What they do is I remember when a dot com era kind of goes really big at that time. There’s a company called Webfan. What they do is you could bring, you could buy your grocery online and then they’ll drop it off in a crate literally to your door. But they tank within like two years or so, Bennie, is because I think the market is not ready. The customers are not ready yet. They don’t even know. They don’t even know what is the website. Long behold, e-commerce wasn’t there. But look at Amazon right now. They’re so big because they’re at the perfect time at the perfect area and they got bigger because of COVID.

Bennie

Right. Right.

Ivo 

Like, where do you go? So it’s important for you when you have that startup mentality. like, it doesn’t mean that, well, first of all, there’s nothing new under the sun, right? It’s like, when you launch that product is the key. WebFan would have worked so well in 2020, not at 2002. You know what I mean? So I think those are the things that understanding your market, think is key. Understanding where the customer is for you to be able to push the product is key, think, when you’re a startup company.

Bennie 

Right. Right. Right. It’s so true, and we’ve talked about this with technology. Sometimes there’s incredible technology that’s a system leap ahead. There’s not critical mass yet. There’s not the infrastructure or bandwidth yet. There’s not the adoption yet or the platform. There’s not the kind of generational shift.

Ivo 

Right. Yep. Yep.

Yep. Absolutely. Like AI now it’s like, what do you use for AI? Everybody’s like AI, they’re going to take over everyone’s job. That’s not entirely true. Like we, the way we use AI is copywriting, copy editing. 10 out of 10, we write our content, Bennie. And then we put them, let’s say on chat GPT or, you know, deep AI, our team and myself, we still have to edit those from the chat GPT and deep AI where it’s like 10 out of 10.

So he’s never gonna be perfect, right? But that’s the reason why I think about how you use it in terms of, you know, the tools and systems.

Bennie 

So we went, you know, we just talked a bit about technology in a stereotypical cold sense technology. So we’re gonna do the stereotypical warm sense and talk community afterward. So how do you, as a technology leading entrepreneur, find community? How do you find that kind of human space?

Ivo

I think it’s everywhere, Bennie, like they just have to look up from their phone, right? I’m just kidding. Go out like I was saying, like, hey, let’s go to lunch. Let’s hang out. You know, I think the community is key. I think it depends on what community you’re looking for. I think for us it is, you know, amazing. We have a good of good a community, right? Like our clients are all one community. You know, that’s amazing. The people that support us from the very get-go.

Bennie

Okay, yeah. Right, right, right.

Ivo

And we work with a lot of this company as well from the very beginning. And then some of them are still going 10 plus years. There is, I think for the younger generation, for example, or if you’re in college and things of that nature, looking for that community, you just have to go out there and immerse yourself into those community, I think are keys. So if you’re in college, you’re looking for a startup community, go out in some of those universities, I think that I’m sure they have a startup area or young adult or whatnot. And then I get to know them and then just kind of immerse yourself into those. I think those are key. For us, it’s a little bit different because I think we built that network and community are so tight that essentially I think for us is kind of more like giving back now rather than, you know, observing it.

Bennie 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, over the past two decades, you’ve had all of these successes that you’ve built upon, right? The successes of the corporate ladder. And I often think about it like we’re in school. After first grade is second grade, after second grade is third grade, right? And we understand that. But then after you’re out of school, you know, the world has a different rhythm that goes along with it. You’ve been able to continue to have ladders of success. I have this question for you. Do you ever surprise yourself? Are there things now that happen that truly surprise you?

Ivo 

I think so, Bennie. I mean, like it’s always surprising because I think for me, I take it more in a passive realm, right? If you fail, I mean, obviously each person, there’s nothing is perfect. If you fail, you have to kind of be in that mode and get back up the very next day. You know, it’s okay to mopey around. It’s okay to like, okay, I suck for one day or I suck for 20 hours. I suck for like literally for a week. But like, how do you… How do you pivot? How do you actually go back and recourse? You might take the long way to get there, but you have to just do it, right? I think for me, surprises are kind of more like when I thought I reached a certain limit, I didn’t realize that I have more. I could do more. And then you didn’t know that, Bennie. Like, it’s like, you didn’t know, this is all I’m gonna do. I guess this is it. And then when you hit that, portion and sometimes it could be a failure along the way and then boom you hit that right and then you realize wait, there is actually, there’s more to this that you could do, you know, so I think that those are at all. You know, obviously I do surprise myself every single moment. It could be who you meet and what you do in that nature. But I also think that I count it as my blessings, you one of those milestone that I got because

Bennie

Right. Mm-hmm.

Ivo 

When you have that mindset of being grateful and thankful and a blessing, I think it creates more roadmap for you to go above and beyond.

Bennie 

Well, you know, that’s, I was gonna ask you if you had any closing words, but that my friend was an awesome way to end our conversation. When you’re grateful for having that book or beyond. I mean, it’s really powerful to hear your story as an entrepreneur, as first a marketing leader and practitioner and realizing that there’s agency in doing your own agency. And then building that in and uncompromisingly thinking about the impact that you can have as a responsible corporation, as a responsible business leader. And I think we may have achieved our goal that we set off with, that if we’re listening to this, I’m inspired. I hope that our listeners are inspired wherever they are in their career journey that we can always surprise ourselves.

Ivo 

Yep. Thank you, Bennie.

Bennie

And, thank you once again, and thank you for continuing to lead the way in the dynamic work you’re doing with 24Notion and encouraging us and challenging us that we can do really well and do really good at the same time.

Ivo 

Great, thank you for having me, Bennie.

Bennie

Thank you. And thank you all for joining us for this really special episode of AMA’s Marketing. / And once again, I’m your host, AMA CEO, Bennie Johnson. And we encourage you to check out both the work of 24Notion and the American Marketing Association at AMA.org. Thank you.